Mr. Eisenberg.

So that it is impossible to attribute any given amount of wear to the last user?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; it is impossible.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Have you measured the dimensions of this rifle assembled, and disassembled?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, I have.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Could you give us that information?

Mr. Frazier.

The overall length is 40.2 inches. It weighs 8 pounds even.

Mr. Mccloy.

With the scope?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, with the scope.

The Chairman.

And the sling?

Mr. Frazier.

That is with the sling, yes, sir. The sling weighs 4 3/4 ounces. The stock length is 34.8 inches, which is the wooden portion from end to end with the butt plate attached. The barrel and action from the muzzle to the rear of the tang, which is this portion at the rearmost portion of the metal, is 28.9 inches. The barrel only is 21.18 inches.

Mr. Eisenberg.

When you say, "this portion," Mr. Frazier, I don't think that is coming down clear in the record. I wonder whether you could rephrase that so as to describe the part of the barrel or part of the stock to which you are pointing when you say "tang."

Mr. Frazier.

The tang is the rear of the receiver of the weapon into which the rear mounting screw is screwed to hold the rearmost part of the metal action of the weapon. into the wooden stock. From the end of that portion to the muzzle of the weapon is 28.9 inches.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And the length of the longest component when the rifle is dissembled, Mr. Frazier?

Mr. Frazier.

34.8 inches, which is the length of the stock, the wooden portion.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Can you describe to us the telescopic sight on the rifle in terms of--

Mr. Mccloy.

Before you get to the sight, can I ask a question?

Mr. Eisenberg.

Surely.

Mr. Mccloy.

How soon after the assassination did you examine this rifle?

Mr. Frazier.

We received the rifle the following morning.

Mr. Mccloy.

Received it in Washington?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

And you immediately made your examination of it then?

Mr. Frazier.

We made an examination of it at that time, and kept it temporarily in the laboratory.
It was then returned to the Dallas Police Department, returned again to the laboratory--the second time on November 27th, and has been either in the laboratory's possession or the Commission's possession since then.

Mr. Mccloy.

When you examined the rifle the first time, you said that it showed signs of some corrosion and wear?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Mccloy.

Was it what you would call pitted, were the lands in good shape?

Mr. Frazier.

No, sir; the lands and the grooves were worn, the corners were worn, and the interior of the surface was roughened from corrosion or wear.

Mr. Mccloy.

Was there metal fouling in the barrel?

Mr. Frazier.

I did not examine it for that.

Mr. Mccloy.

Could you say roughly how many rounds you think had been fired since it left the factory, with the condition of the barrel as you found it?

Mr. Frazier.

No, sir; I could not, because the number of rounds is not an indication of the condition of the barrel, since if a barrel is allowed to rust, one round will remove that rust and wear the barrel to the same extent as 10 or 15 or 50 rounds just fired through a clean barrel.

Mr. Mccloy.

Thank you.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Could you describe the telescopic sight on the rifle? Magnification, country of origin?

Mr. Frazier.

It is a four-power telescopic sight employing crosshairs in it as a sighting device, in the interior of the scope.
It is stamped "Optics Ordnance Incorporated, Hollywood California," and