Mr. Baker.

couldn't tell which building they were coming from but I know they were all over.
Say you were facing north like Houston they were in the sky facing north in the street.

Senator Cooper.

Which way were the pigeons going?

Mr. Baker.

They were just coming up, you know.

Senator Cooper.

I assume you are a hunter, aren't you, from what you said?

Mr. Baker.

Yes, sir; I try to be.

Senator Cooper.

Have you seen birds in flight when they are suddenly startled?

Mr. Baker.

Yes, sir.

Senator Cooper.

Well, was this the character of the flight of pigeons you saw?

Mr. Baker.

Yes, sir; that is the way it seemed to me, that these birds, you know, just with a sudden uprush.

Senator Cooper.

Did you have any notice of anyone saying there might have been a shot from the railroad until you heard the statement over the radio just before you entered the School Book Depository?

Mr. Baker.

No, sir; that was the only words that I remember that was said over the radio from the time the shots rang out until I started parking that motorcycle, and when I came off of it I heard those words.

Senator Cooper.

Could you see the railroad yards?

Mr. Baker.

Yes, sir; I could see it--this track ran under this triple under-pass to my left, all out behind this building.

Senator Cooper.

Did you see anything there which attracted your attention other than---

Mr. Baker.

Nothing except---

Senator Cooper.

Crowd?

Mr. Baker.

There were people all over this track, over this triple underpass, and people just standing all over this sloping bank there, you know, going up.

Senator Cooper.

Were there any officers that you saw near the School Book Depository when you went in?

Mr. Baker.

There was an officer working traffic on that corner, and Officer J. W. Williams was---

Mr. Dulles.

By that corner you mean the corner of Elm and Houston?

Mr. Baker.

That is right, sir. J. W. Williams who is a motorcycle officer, was, I thought, over on the left-hand side of me, and he was right with me, but as I ran in this building, I found out that I was by myself. I didn't know where anybody went.

Senator Cooper.

Did you later see J. W. Williams, Officer Williams?

Mr. Baker.

Yes, sir. He stated that when the motorcade left with the President, and they immediately went code 3 to Parkland, why he was up there with him and he went up there with him. And I later saw him out there at Parkland.

Mr. Dulles.

You testified, I believe, that you did not yourself see the President's car stop. You just were told it was stopped by several other officers?

Mr. Baker.

Let me say, as I parked that motorcycle, I looked down there, well, the car had swerved to the left, and I saw this man run out into this crowd and back. I don't know who he was but I saw that and I saw these people following him, and all these pressmen jumping out of their cars and running down the street toward him.

Mr. Belin.

Officer Baker, do you know from where this man ran off into the crowd at all or not?

Mr. Baker.

Apparently he came from one of the cars right there by the President's car. He was, he came from the motorcade, inside the motorcade out to the sidewalk and then back.

Mr. Belin.

All right.
You mentioned the fact that you had gone or come back from deer hunting just prior to November 22, 1963.

Mr. Baker.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin.

What kind of a weapon did you have when you went deer hunting?

Mr. Baker.

I had one of these .30-06, I believe the Springfield type.

Mr. Belin.

Is it a rifle?