Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

I have two other pictures I would like to show, and I would like to show the Commissioners all three at the same time.
Now, do you recall that we had you three men stand near the stairwell?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Now, on this picture here, on 487, that would be what location?

Mr. Williams.

On this picture here, that would be about right in here.

Mr. Ball.

Near the "up", is that right?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

I would like to have the Commissioners note that-that the man was standing near the "up" part of the stairwell.
We took your pictures three in a row, is that right?

Mr. Williams.

That is right.

Mr. Ball.

And then do you recall the picture was taken?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; I recall this picture. This picture was taken from the position we were standing, and it gave the view of--the only thing you would be able to see from this point. And this picture here was James Jarman, which we were standing shoulder to shoulder.

Mr. Ball.

Also were the cartons piled at, that time so that--as they were here--on the day, November 22d, were the cartons piled somewhat like they are here?

Mr. Williams.

They were piled somewhat like here, because they have been rearranged since that time.

Mr. Ball.

Now, in both pictures, 492 and 490, you see two windows, do you not?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And those windows are shown on the diagram of the fifth floor, 487, as where?

Mr. Williams.

Right here.

Mr. Ball.

The windows next to the west elevator?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And, in this picture, are you able to see either elevator?

Mr. Williams.

In this picture?

Mr. Ball.

This picture 490 and 492--are you able to see either elevator?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; you cannot see exactly the elevator.

Mr. Ball.

Now, in this picture, 491, where is the downstairs?

Mr. Williams.

The downstairs come right in here.

Mr. Ball.

Are you able to see the opening of the downstairs from this view, 492?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And the thing that obstructs your view is this shelving, is that right?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; that's right.

Mr. Dulles.

How long has that shelving been there for quite a long while?

Or was it put there recently?

Mr. Williams.

I think it was there from the time I started, as far as I can remember.

Mr. Dulles.

That goes back to the time you were first employed there?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir. At the time I came to the building.

Mr. Dulles.

So it could not have been put up a clay or two before.

Mr. Williams.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Did you hear anyone going up or down the stairs?

Mr. Williams.

No, I didn't.

Mr. Ball.

Did you pay any attention to that?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

As you were standing at the window, did you hear any footsteps?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Up above hear any movement up above?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; I don't remember.

Mr. Ball.

Were you paying any attention whether or not there was anyone up above?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; we wasn't paying any attention.