Mr. Williams.

I left here, and I came like this. The other fellows followed like this. We all was running this direction here. And I believe when. we got to this point here, we stopped. And I am not sure, but I think James Jarman, he raised this window, this corner window here, and we all huddled in this corner window.

Mr. Ball.

We will mark that window Y. And then you ran from X to Y, you three men?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Was the window open or closed?

Mr. Williams.

I think it was closed at the time.

Mr. Ball.

Was it opened then?

Mr. Williams.

I believe James Jarman opened the window.

Mr. Ball.

Now, the other day, when you were up here, you three men went to that window and stood there and had your picture taken, did you not?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

This window which you have shown as Y, in 487, the diagram of the fifth floor.

Mr. Williams.

That's right.

Mr. Ball.

Here is 488.
(The document so described was marked Commission Exhibit No. 488 for identification.)

Mr. Ball.

Is that the window?

Mr. Williams.

Yes; it is.

Mr. Ball.

And is that about the way you were standing as you looked out to the west?

Mr. Williams.

That is about the way we were standing.

Mr. Ball.

Did you run fast towards the west?

Mr. Williams.

We did. We moved rather fast. We was at a trotting pace.

Mr. Dulles.

Was that to get a better view of the President's party in the car?

Mr. Williams.

No, sir; I don't think--we knew the President had been shot at at that time. The car was gone, you know. It has speeded up and left. But the people, as I said before, the policemen and people were running towards the tracks. The tracks are at this side of the building. We wondered why they were running that way.

Mr. Dulles.

How did you know the President was shot at this time?

Mr. Williams.

We heard the shots, and we assumed somebody had shot him. And we decided to run down that way.

Representative Ford.

Why didn't you go up to the sixth floor?

Mr. Williams.

I really don't know. We just never did think about it. And after we had made this last stop, James Jarman said, "Maybe we better get the hell out of here." And so we just ran down to the fourth floor, and came on down. We never did think about it, going up to the sixth floor. Maybe it was just because we were frightened.

Mr. Dulles.

Did you know the President had been hit?

Mr. Williams.

Well, personally I did not know he had been hit, but I think Harold--I remember--I don't know whether he said or not--but I think he said he saw him slump. So from that I think we all assumed he had been shot

Mr. Dulles.

One of the other two?

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; I think it was.

Mr. Dulles.

Said that

Mr. Williams.

Yes, sir; I believe that is what he said. Anyway, we knew he had been shot at.

Mr. Ball.

After you left this corner window in the southwest corner that we have shown you the picture of as 488, where did you go?

Mr. Williams.

Then we moved over to another window on the west side of the building.

Mr. Ball.

Let's go back to the diagram of the fifth floor, 487, and you show me where that window was.

Mr. Williams.

It was one of these windows, I believe it was this window here, I believe. Maybe it was this window. I would say this window.

Mr. Ball.

All right. We will mark that Z--window Z.