Mr. Jenner.

You testified that--are you acquainted with a Dr. Carl Hyde?

Mrs. Paine.

He is my brother.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you discuss Marina and Lee with him when you visited there in September of 1963?

Mrs. Paine.

I recall particularly an evening discussion with his wife where I told quite a lot about the contact that I had had with Marina.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you state to either or both of them that Marina's husband was a Communist?

Mrs. Paine.

That is possible. I think it is more likely that I referred to him as a Marxist.

Mr. Jenner.

Now, what is the distinction between a Marxist and a Communist in your mind?

Mrs. Paine.

Distinction is not clear to me, but I judged that Lee felt there was a distinction as he

Mr. Jenner.

What was your impression as to what Lee thought a Marxist was as distinguished from a Communist?

Mrs. Paine.

I have no clear impression.

Mr. Jenner.

If I suggested the possibility of, that a Marxist tenet was the change in government by violent means rather than gradual process?

Mrs. Paine.

This is not something I ever heard from him.

Mr. Jenner.

Was it anything that you ever thought of?

Mrs. Paine.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

A concept that you ever had?

Mrs. Paine.

In describing Marxism?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes.

Mrs. Paine.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever discuss with Lee why he was--he always took care to distinguish to say that he was a Marxist as distinguished from a Communist?

Mrs. Paine.

No; I never did.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you form an impression as to what he intended to convey by that description?

Mrs. Paine.

He intended to convey that he was more pure, I felt, that was my impression.

Mr. Jenner.

More pure than what?

Mrs. Paine.

Than a Communist.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you also say to your brother or your sister or both of them that Lee had not permitted her to learn English, that is Marina?

Mrs. Paine.

Very probably.

Mr. Jenner.

And that Marina was experiencing marital difficulties with Lee?

Mrs. Paine.

Very probably.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever say that Marina did not share her husband's political views?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes; I did.

Mr. Jenner.

Excuse me, that is to your brother or sister or both of them?

Mrs. Paine.

To the best of my recollection.

Mr. Jenner.

Speaking of the marital difficulties, did you ever have the feeling that Marina was in some measure a contribution--contributed toward those,

causing those difficulties or a catalyst from which those difficulties resulted?

Mrs. Paine.

I didn't have that feeling.

Mr. Jenner.

You did not.
What feeling did you have in that direction, assuming you had one?

Mrs. Paine.

All the time I knew her or at least any references from her of the matter to their marriage left me with the impression that it was hopeful that though it was difficult they could work out their difficulties.

Mr. Jenner.

And that she was desirous of attempting to do so?

Mrs. Paine.

She was desirous of attempting to do so though still leaving open the possibility that in time she would have to conclude that she couldn't.
She by no means simply gave in to him on every point or let him walk on her, but that, I would say, is a healthy thing for the marriage rather than anything contributive to any fundamental difficulty in it.

Mr. Jenner.

Have you completed your answer?