Mr. Specter.

May I interrupt you just to ask whether you had any view--

Mr. Kellerman.

Surely.

Mr. Specter.

Of the rear part of his head?

Mr. Kellerman.

I did not, sir.

Mr. Specter.

What was the rearmost or uppermost portion of President Kennedy's head which you could observe at that time?

Mr. Kellerman.

It was the hairline to the ear, sir.

Mr. Specter.

Proceed.

Mr. Kellerman.

Having all the medical people in there, my business is left in their hands. So I left. Mrs. Kennedy, incidentally, was still in there.

Mr. Specter.

In where, sir?

Mr. Kellerman.

In the emergency room with him. Which after a few minutes they convinced her to leave, and she sat outside the room while they were working over the President. I walked into this center area of this emergency room--and I am looking for a telephone which there is a little doctor's office and I walked inside, and I am alone at that time, except one medic who was in there. There are two phones and I said, "Can I use either one of these phones to get outside?" and he said, "Yes; just pick one up."
By this time Mr. Lawson enters and also Mr. Hill. I asked Mr. Lawson for the telephone number of the Dallas White House switchboard. He immediately has it and I said to Mr. Hill, "Will you dial it, please?" By that time a medic comes into the room from President Kennedy's section and he asks if anybody knows the blood type of the President--President Kennedy. We all carry it. I produce mine, and that is what I believe they used; I am not sure. By this time the connection is made with the White House operator in Dallas, and I took the phone, identified myself, and I said, "Give me Washington. Please don't pull this line; let's leave it open."
I got the Washington operator and I said, identified myself, and I said, "Give me Mr. Behn."
Mr. Behn was in the office at the time, and I said--his name is Gerald Behn--and I said, "Gerry, we have had an incident here in Dallas. The President, the Governor have been shot, We are in the emergency room of the Parkland Memorial Hospital." I said, "Mark down the time." Of course, since that time until now we have disagreed on about 3 minutes. I said it is 12:38, which would be 1:38 Dallas time. I am sorry--Washington time.

Mr. Specter.

Was that at the time you were talking to Mr. Behn?

Mr. Kellerman.

To Mr. Behn; yes, sir.

Mr. Specter.

And your version is that it is 12:38 Dallas time?

Mr. Kellerman.

12:38. He said it was 12:41; he told me the next day.

Mr. Specter.

May I interrupt you there for you to tell us how long after you arrived at the hospital did you make that telephone call to Mr. Behn, to the best of your recollection?

Mr. Kellerman.

Three to five minutes.

Mr. Specter.

All right. The topic we are on now, Mr. Kellerman, is your own way of relating the description of the wounds, starting with four wounds on President Kennedy.

Mr. Kellerman.

Right; OK.

Mr. Specter.

Proceed, then.

Mr. Kellerman.

I can eclipse an awful lot here and get into the morgue here in Bethesda, because that is where I looked him over.

Mr. Specter.

I will come back and pick up some of the other detail.

Mr. Kellerman.

Fine.

Mr. Specter.

But for the sequence at the moment, as it relates to your conclusions on the shots which you have already testified about--

Mr. Kellerman.

OK.

Mr. Specter.

I would like to develop your understanding and your observations of the four wounds on President Kennedy.

Mr. Kellerman.

OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.

Mr. Specter.

Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches; would that be approximately correct?

Mr. Kellerman.

Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head.