Mr. Specter.

How many seconds?

Mr. Kellerman.

Three or four.

Mr. Specter.

Now, how long did it take you to relay the instructions which you have told us about to Special Agent Lawson; what your best estimate would be?

Mr. Kellerman.

Instant, in seconds again. Again it is three to five.

Mr. Specter.

Now, in your prior testimony you described a flurry of shells into the car. How many shots did you hear after the first noise which you described as sounding like a firecracker?

Mr. Kellerman.

Mr. Specter, these shells came in all together.

Mr. Specter.

Are you able to say how many you heard?

Mr. Kellerman.

I am going to say two, and it was like a double bang--bang, bang.

Mr. Specter.

You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?

Mr. Kellerman.

Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.

Mr. Specter.

What is your best estimate of the time, in seconds, from the first noise sounding like a firecracker until the second noise which you heard?

Mr. Kellerman.

This was instantaneous.

Mr. Specter.

No; let me repeat the question so I am sure you understand it. From the time you first heard the noise coming to your right rear, which you described as sounding like a firecracker, until you heard the flurry of shots?

Mr. Kellerman.

This is about how long it took, sir. As I am viewing, trying to determine this noise, I turned to my right and I heard the voice and I came back and I verify it and speak to the driver, grab the mike, these shots come in.

Mr. Specter.

Well, you have described it as 3 to 4 seconds from the time--

Mr. Kellerman.

No more.

Mr. Specter.

From the time of the first noise--wait a minute--until you gave the instruction to Mr. Greer and then as you made the statement to Special Agent Lawson over the microphone that was an instantaneous timespan as you have described it.

Mr. Kellerman.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Specter.

How soon thereafter did the flurry of shots come?

Mr. Kellerman.

They came in, Mr. Specter, while I am delivering that radio message.

Mr. Specter.

To Mr. Lawson. All right. Was there any timespan which you could discern between the first and second shots and what you have described as the flurry?

Mr. Kellerman.

I will estimate 5 seconds, if that.

Representative Ford.

But this flurry took place while you were occupied with these other activities; is that correct?

Mr. Kellerman.

That is right, sir.

Representative Ford.

You don't recall precisely a second shot and a third shot such as you did in the case of the first?

Mr. Kellerman.

Let me give you an illustration, sir, before I can give you an answer. You have heard the sound barrier, of a plane breaking the sound barrier, bang, bang? That is it.

Representative Ford.

This is for the second and the third, or the flurry as you described it?

Mr. Kellerman.

That is right; that is right, sir.

Mr. Specter.

On your 5-second estimate, was that in reference, Mr. Kellerman, to the total timespan from the first noise until the flurry ended?

Mr. Kellerman.

That is right; that is right.

Mr. Specter.

All right. Now, when the flurry occurred then, were you still facing forward talking into the microphone to Lawson?

Mr. Kellerman.

That is right.

Mr. Specter.

All right. Then precisely what was your next movement after completing the delivery of that message to Lawson?

Mr. Kellerman.

When I completed the delivery of those instructions to Lawson, I just hung up the receiver and looked back.

Mr. Specter.

To your right this time--to your left; pardon me.

Mr. Kellerman.

To my left; that is right. This is when I first viewed Mr. Hill, who was on the back of the--