Mr. Kellerman.

It is at least three lanes, sir.

Mr. Specter.

And describe the terrain, whether it was smooth, level or in what way you went as you went down Elm Street.

Mr. Kellerman.

As we went down Elm Street, there was a smooth road and the terrain on each side was a grassy plotted area, a very cleared-off area, visibility tremendous.

Mr. Specter.

And describe the composure of the crowds at that time.

Mr. Kellerman.

As we turned north on to Houston Street, this was primarily the end of the crowd in Dallas, Tex.; in the downtown section, there were still a few on the sidewalk until we got to Elm Street. As we turned in a northerly direction to Elm Street, which would be on our left, then the crowds just diminished. They were spotty, standing on the grassy plot. They were not on the side of the street. In fact, there were just a matter of a handful, that was all, and we were through it.

Mr. Specter.

Do you know what time it was when you got to the intersection of Houston and Elm on November 22?

Mr. Kellerman.

Not at Houston and Elm; no. No; I don't.

Mr. Specter.

What was the speed of the motorcade, Mr. Kellerman, as you were proceeding down Main Street at about the time you turned right onto Houston?

Mr. Kellerman.

Ten, fifteen, no more; real parade speed.

Mr. Specter.

How far ahead of you was the lead car at that time?

Mr. Kellerman.

Again, it was four or five car lengths in front.

Mr. Specter.

Do you know how far behind you the President's followup car was as you turned right onto Houston from Main Street?

Mr. Kellerman.

No; I don't, but I am positive it was right on our rear wheels.

Mr. Specter.

All right.
Now, as you turned left off Houston onto Elm, what is your best estimate of the speed of the President's automobile at that time?

Mr. Kellerman.

As we turned onto Elm Street and the crowd, we were through the section of Dallas; we might have had--the driver picked it up because we were all through. Purely a guess, we could have been going at the most 25.

Mr. Specter.

What would your estimate, your minimum estimate, of the speed be?

Mr. Kellerman.

Fifteen.

Mr. Specter.

As you turned left onto Elm Street, how far were you behind the lead car at that point?

Mr. Kellerman.

I am going to say the same; three to five car lengths, but I can, to go a little further, I can see this car ahead of me. He is not running away from us.

Mr. Specter.

How about the pilot car; was that car in sight?

Mr. Kellerman.

No; that I didn't see; I didn't see it.

Mr. Specter.

Do you know from your personal observation at the time you turned left onto Elm Street how far the President's followup car was behind you at that point?

Mr. Kellerman.

Not from personal observation.

Mr. Specter.

All right. Now, describe what occurred as you proceeded down Elm Street after turning off of Houston.

Mr. Kellerman.

As we turned off Houston onto Elm and made the short little dip to the left going down grade, as I said, we were away from buildings, and were there was a sign on the side of the road which I don't recall what it was or what it said, but we no more than passed that and you are out in the open, and there is a report like a firecracker, pop. And I turned my head to the right because whatever this noise was I was sure that it came from the right and perhaps into the rear, and as I turned my head to the right to view whatever it was or see whatever it was, I heard a voice from the back seat and I firmly believe it was the President's, "My God, I am hit," and I turned around and he has got his hands up here like this.

Mr. Kellerman.

731-218 O--vol.II---6