Mr. Liebeler.

Why did you say that to yourself when you picked up the package?

Mr. Paine.

I had, my experience had been, my earliest camping equipment had been a tent of iron pipes. This somehow reminded me of that. I felt a pipe with my right hand and it was iron, that is to say it was not aluminum.

Mr. Liebeler.

How did you make that distinction?

Mr. Paine.

By the weight of it, and by the, I suppose the moment of inertia, you could have an aluminum tube with a total weight massed in the center somehow but that would not have had the inertia this way.

Mr. Dulles.

You were just feeling this through the blanket though?

Mr. Paine.

I was also aware as I was moving his goods around, of his rights to privacy. So I did not feel--I had to move this object, I wasn't thinking very much about it but it happens that I did think a little bit about it or before I get on to the working with my tools I thought, an image came to mind.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you think there was more than one tent pole in the package or just one tent pole?

Mr. Paine.

As I say, I moved it several times, and I think I thought progressively each time. I moved it twice. It had three occasions. And the first one was an iron, thought of an iron pipe and then I have drawn, I drew yesterday, a picture of the thing I had in mind. Then in order to fill out the package I had to add another object to it and there I added again I was thinking of camping equipment, and I added a folding shovel such as I had seen in the Army, a little spade where the blade folds back over the handle. This has the trouble that this blade was too symmetrical I disposed to the handle and to fit the package the blade had to be off center, eccentric to the handle. Also, I had my vision of the pipe. It had an iron pipe about 30 inches long with a short section of pipe going off 45 degrees. No words here, it just happened that I did have this image in my mind of trying to fill up that package in the back burner of my mind.

Mr. Liebeler.

The witness yesterday did draw a picture of what he visualized as being in the blanket, and I will offer it in evidence later on in the hearing.
How long was this package in your estimation?

Mr. Paine.

Well, yesterday we measured the distance that I indicated with my hand, I think it came to 37 inches.

Mr. Liebeler.

Approximately how thick would you say it was?

Mr. Paine.

I picked it up each time and I put it in a position and then I would recover it from that position, so each time I moved it with the same position with my hands in the same position. My right hand, the thumb and forefinger could go around the pipe, and my left hand grabbed something which was an inch and a half inside the blanket or something thick.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did it occur to you at that time that there was a rifle in the package?

Mr. Paine.

That did not occur to me.

Mr. Liebeler.

You never at any time looked inside the package?

Mr. Paine.

That is correct. I could easily have felt the package but I was aware that of respecting his privacy of his possessions.

Mr. Liebeler.

Were you subsequently advised of the probability or the possibility that there had been a rifle wrapped in that package?

Mr. Paine.

When I arrived on Friday afternoon we went into the garage, I think Ruth, Marina and the policeman, and I am not sure it was the first time, but there we saw this blanket was on the floor below the bandsaw--
(At this point Representative Ford entered the hearing room.)

Mr. Paine.

And a rifle was mentioned and then it rang a bell, the rifle answered, fitted the package that I had been trying to fit these unsuccessfully. It had never resolved itself, this shovel and pipe didn't fit in there.

Mr. Liebeler.

And it seemed to you likely that there had in fact been a rifle in the package?

Mr. Paine.

That answered it.

Mr. Liebeler.

Can you tell us when the last time was that you saw that package in the garage prior to the assassination?

Mr. Paine.

No; I am afraid I can't.

Mr. Dulles.

Do we have the date of the first time in the record?