Krystinik.
Senator COOPER. In which they reached some point in which further discussion was not, if not impossible, was at least difficult between them?
From these experiences you had was there a situation, that after some arguments or discussion of economic or political issues, he would reach a point in which he relied upon certain fixed positions that he held about which he would not admit of any further discussion or argument?

Mr. Paine.

That is correct. He would just present his dogmatic view and then one was at loss to find any way to get off that impasse.
Senator COOPER. When he was questioned about that view or when an attempt was made to argue that view with him, would he then become angry or disturbed in any way?

Mr. Paine.

The time that I reported I was angry and I noticed he was holding his temper pretty well and I wasn't going to let him hold his temper better than mine.
Senator COOPER. Did you see indication--

Mr. Paine.

I saw he was angry, his hands trembled a little bit.
Senator COOPER. All right.

Mr. Paine.

But he was dogged, I think he was practiced or skilled or took pride in this was a kind of struggle or fight that he would do this, and he would do it for a long time.

Mr. Liebeler.

Clench his. fists and put them together?

Mr. Paine.

No; it was expressing this as a mood.

Mr. Liebeler.

He would hold himself back?

Mr. Paine.

He would oppose himself to you steadily, and it seemed to me he liked to put himself in a position of belligerence or opposition, and he would just hold his ground or something, was accustomed to doing that and expected to stick it out. It reminded me a little bit of Lawrence of Arabia when Lawrence held the match that burned down to his finger and the fellows asked him what is the trick? He said no trick you just learn how to stand the pain.
Senator COOPER. I have to go and I would like to ask a few questions.
I ask these questions to get a certain background of his views which you have said he finally came to some fixed position which he would hold and would not move and there was no brooking of real argument on that position.
You said earlier in response to a question by counsel that he did not believe there was any possibility of any evolutionary progress in this country, at least upon this issue of economic change.

Mr. Paine.

This he never said that specifically. But I would ask him what policy should we take or I was trying to find if he didn't have some avenue of following a policy in this country.
Senator COOPER. Did you direct questions to him which showed some evolution in our own economic ideas and theories which he either refused to accept.

Mr. Paine.

Yes; I did. I mean I tried to show him how labor and management, first labor had a right, I was criticizing labor for the rigid position it is getting us into now.
Senator COOPER. He would not accept that idea of evolution?

Mr. Paine.

I think he did not accept it; yes. He didn't have patience with it.
Senator COOPER. Is that also a tenet of the Communist dogma, do you know?

Mr. Paine.

I don't believe, I don't know whether you can say there is a single Communist dogma of that sort. I suppose there are some groups that feel that way and others don't.
Senator COOPER. Did he indicate any other way in which he thought that economic change might come about in the United States?

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