Mr. Dulles.

Russia? You said he slapped her down. I was wondering on what kind of points he slapped her down.

Mr. Paine.

I have unfortunately tried to remember those points myself wishing, wondering whether hypnosis would bring it out of me as a tape recorder, or something. I was interested to know whether the Russians were happy with their system, whether they felt the presence of the Secret Police, these are questions, I don't remember asking them, these are questions that I would have been interested in.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you remember any response either from Marina or from Oswald on these points?

Mr. Paine.

And I don't remember anything specific here. I just remember that I encountered too many points where they apparently differed and, therefore, I had in mind I will just wait until she can learn English and we will get it from the horse's mouth.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you speak with Oswald during this first meeting of the circumstances under which he met Marina and married her in Russia?

Mr. Paine.

I don't remember when I learned that. I think I learned it from Ruth, who had spoken to Marina on this subject.

Mr. Liebeler.

What did you learn?

Mr. Paine.

It may have been--I don't remember when it occurred, it may have been after the assassination, I may have read it in the paper or something.

Mr. Liebeler.

You don't remember any specific conversations with Oswald on that subject?

Mr. Paine.

No; I don't.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Lee Oswald ever speak to you about his experience in the United States Marine Corps?

Mr. Paine.

He mentioned that his brother went in the Marine Corps and apparently enjoyed it and he had then, I think he said he had left school early to join it and I gathered, I thought to myself, he is expecting to find the joy his brother found there and he did not find it. He did not like the Marine Corps.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he tell you anything--pardon me.

Mr. Paine.

He did not mention that I can recall his exit from the Marine Corps.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he ever mention the name of Governor Connally in connection with his experiences in the Marines?

Mr. Paine.

Not that I remember.

Mr. Dulles.

Did he ever mention the President in this or any other conversations?

Mr. Paine.

He mentioned the President only once that I can remember specifically; at the ACLU meeting I think.

Mr. Dulles.

At the which?

Mr. Paine.

At the ACLU meeting I took him to. He had mentioned, he thought President Kennedy was doing quite a good job in civil rights, which was high praise coming from Lee.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you have any discussion during this first meeting other than the discussion you have already mentioned concerning Oswald's political beliefs?

Mr. Paine.

There, of course, I was interested in that subject, found we differed, and then in order to not wrestle with concepts or arguments that were unmanageably large, I tried to bring it down to more specific instances of how he would like to see the world be.

Mr. Liebeler.

How did you become aware of the fact that you differed, do you remember?

Mr. Paine.

I don't remember him making any bones about it the very first meeting. He told me he had become a Marxist, in his own apartment there, that he had become a Marxist by reading books and never having met a Communist in this country.
And he also then told me with a certain sadness or regret that he couldn't speak about political and economic subjects with his people, and fellows at work.
(At this point Senator Cooper entered the hearing room.)