Mr. Paine.

Well, with some kind of resentment he did, that it was assigned, and I think that is about all he said.

Mr. Dulles.

May I ask whether these questions relate to all the four times or just to the first time, are we still on the first?

Mr. Liebeler.

Basically on the first time, sir, unless we specify to the contrary.

Mr. Dulles.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Tell us what else you and Oswald discussed during this first meeting that you had?

Mr. Paine.

Unfortunately that first meeting was the clearest one. I was asking him questions, taking his answers. I had hoped when I met this man to have insights into Russia, both meeting him and meeting his wife, and interesting talks about the differences between the Russian system and the American, the western system.
Then I found that he was--some questions, later in the evening, the conversation was translated into Russian also so that Marina could follow along.

Mr. Dulles.

You mean after the first half hour when you were preparing--

Mr. Paine.

That is right, when we came back after dinner to our house.

Mr. Dulles.

Your house. So this went on?

Mr. Paine.

What you have heard now occurred mostly in the first half hour when I was speaking directly to him when I met him.

Mr. Liebeler.

Then you returned to Irving to your house and had dinner and had the additional conversation?

Mr. Paine.

Yes. Now, in all the subsequent conversations, you are going to get less information in what he said.

Mr. Dulles.

In the first part of this meeting you were alone and in the second part of the meeting there were other people there?

Mr. Paine.

My wife and Marina was able. to join us. At this time Marina was packing things for Junie and I noticed that he was speaking very harshly to her. He was telling her what bag or satchel to take. I gathered from it, of course, it was in Russian, and I thought to myself, here is a little fellow who certainly insists on wearing the pants.

Mr. Dulles.

You don't understand Russian yourself?

Mr. Paine.

No. So he spoke loudly to her. and didn't rise from his seat. But spoke surprisingly harshly especially in front of a guest.

Mr. Dulles.

How did she take this?

Mr. Paine.

With a bit of umbrage. She didn't like it. It rankled her.

Representative Ford.

In other words, this half hour conversation took place in their apartment?

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Representative Ford.

While she was packing the bags to go to your home?

Mr. Paine.

That is right.

Mr. Dulles.

Was she packing the bags for some days or was this--

Mr. Paine.

No; just bottles, diapers, clothing, something.

Mr. Dulles.

For a weekend?

Mr. Paine.

Just for the evening.

Mr. Dulles.

Just for an evening?

Mr. Paine.

I don't know why it took so long but it did. I guess they weren't quite ready when I arrived.

Mr. Liebeler.

What else did you and Oswald speak about during this evening, do you remember?

Mr. Paine.

After supper the conversation was translated into Russian, and I wanted to gather Marina's or get Marina's corroboration of certain things he said about Russia and there we found when she had differing opinions from him that he would not let her, he would slap her down verbally, and not let her express them or say--Ruth told me later, he was calling her a fool, "You don't know anything."
When I encountered this, I actually trusted Marina to know--the questions I was asking, it seemed to me could be better answered by Marina, so I wasn't paying very close attention to what he had said about that.

Mr. Dulles.

Could you indicate on what points they seemed to differ or what points that he raised that irritated her or vice versa in their discussion about