Mr. Liebeler.

You were at that time living in New York City?

Mr. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Subsequently you and your mother.

Mr. Paine.

She got a divorce in Reno, Nev., she had a house in Virginia City.

The Chairman.

In New York you were living with your father or mother?

Mr. Paine.

They lived together in New York. Then there was a year, a part of a year, we moved to Philadelphia. They may have separated and he tried to come back or something like that, and then we went to Reno, Nev.

Mr. Liebeler.

During the time you lived in Philadelphia, was your father living with the family?

Mr. Paine.

I think he was there part time. I don't remember that for sure. We had two houses there. One I think I remember him slightly and the other one I don't.

Mr. Liebeler.

Your father was not present during the time that you stayed in Nevada?

Mr. Paine.

No; he was not.

Mr. Liebeler.

You and your brother stayed in Nevada with your mother?

Mr. Paine.

And a housekeeper also.

Mr. Liebeler.

After you left Nevada where did you live?

Mr. Paine.

We went over to California, Santa Barbara.

Mr. Liebeler.

Who lived there at that time with you?

Mr. Paine.

A friend of hers, Kathleen, now she was originally Kathleen Schroeder, a sister of my uncle, now Kathleen Forbes, and a distant cousin of my mother's, and I think my grandfather, grandparents, would come out occasionally.

Mr. Liebeler.

Was your father present at that time?

Mr. Paine.

No; he was not.

Mr. Libeler.

He wasn't there at any time during your stay in Santa Barbara?

Mr. Paine.

I don't remember that. I am not certain of it.

Mr. Liebeler.

How long did you live in Santa Barbara, Calif.?

Mr. Paine.

Each year my grandfather paid our way back across the country to Naushon Island in Massachusetts. We lived there 3 years.

Mr. Liebeler.

Where did you go after that?

Mr. Paine.

Cambridge, Mass.

Mr. Liebeler.

How long were you there?

Mr. Paine.

From the third to the sixth grade.

Mr. Liebeler.

With whom did you live?

Mr. Paine.

With my mother on Fairweather Street.

The Chairman.

Is this of particular importance to the investigation, it is very lengthy, and I don't know particularly what it bears upon. If it is in relation with his father, let's get at that and get it over with, but I don't see what this man's history from the time he was born--I don't see how it bears on it. It just takes altogether too much time for an extraneous purpose. it seems to me. Let's get on with the thing.

Mr. Liebeler.

It bears on the point only on what connection he has with his father.

Mr. Paine.

Let me go to that. I have seen him on a few times, once a year would be a frequent--we felt great affinity in our bent, not in the actual application of the way we would like to do things but in a concern for the value of people. I know very little about what he does, and he has not tried to proselytize me, and he has not volunteered information about what he did.
I think a certain change has come over him since. For many years or years in college or something I thought he was still interested in his revolutionary groups and that was a pity because that wasn't going to happen, and it was to be a dead end, a blind, he would come to the end of his life and his cause had fizzled out.
When I went out to California more recently, the last time we were talking about the civil rights movement and, shall we say, the revolution occurring in this country spearheaded by the Negroes' demand for dignity, that was a subject that completely absorbed the weekend and there were various Negroes who came around the country, who happened to pass through at that time. You probably might be interested in regard to Cuba. I was surprised sometime