Mrs. Ford.

apartment, were telling me, that they have seen books like Karl Marx open in front of him, just lying there on the table, that he didn't even hide it when someone came in, and then someone else said there was a book laying there of How to Be a Spy, laying right open there.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you remember who told you that?

Mrs. Ford.

I believe it was Lydia Dymitruk.

Mr. Liebeler.

D-y-m-i-t-r-u-k. Do you remember anything about that particular conversation?

Mrs. Ford.

Well, she was telling me, she took, when the baby left my house, she had a cold, and it was getting worse, and I believe soon after she left Anna Ray, the baby began to have a fever, and Lydia, I believe, I don't know how she got to go to her apartment, really, I don't know the reason she went there; she went there and wanted to take the baby to the doctor and she told me of an incident that says even Marina was ashamed of Lee because when she took her to the hospital Lee was lying about that he didn't have a job at the time, which Lydia knew that he did have. He didn't want to pay for the services, and people at the hospital was asking him how does he pay for the apartment and he was telling them that, "My friends were helping me," and Marina just said something in Russian that Lydia remembers, "What a liar," you know, behind his back.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did she say that so he could hear it?

Mrs. Ford.

I think so, because she said it aloud.

Mr. Liebeler.

And she said it in Russian?

Mrs. Ford.

Yes; she did.

Mr. Liebeler.

In front of Lydia Dymitruk?

Mrs. Ford.

Yes; that is right, and Lydia was rather mad about the whole thing and she said she is not going to help them any more if they are acting that way.
The baby wasn't helped at the hospital. I think the hospital didn't want to take the child because the father couldn't pay, that is what I got, the father couldn't pay for it.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you ever see Marina say anything adverse to Oswald in his presence, did she run him down or make fun of him in public so far as you know?

Mrs. Ford.

As far as I know, I don't, except the first time, the one time, I would think when she said, "What a liar," in front of him.

Mr. Liebeler.

You don't know of any other instance when she would have done that?

Mrs. Ford.

I don't know of any other instance.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know whether she ever spoke of his political views before other people or make fun of him?

Mrs. Ford.

No; I don't remember except lately I have been talking to her about that and she said she thought of him being young, and she thought she hoped it would pass with years, that he would mature, this is what she was telling me.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did she tell you whether or not she discussed politics with him herself? Did she argue with him about anything?

Mrs. Ford.

She said she was arguing with him about that. Certainly, in fact, he called her, she was typical American girl, that she is not interested at all in politics, except in the material things that he wasn't interested in. She said she wanted a house and a family and he said, "All the American girls think that way" and he thought he married a different sort of a girl, a Russian girl.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now, think back on that week that Marina stayed with you. Is there anything else that happened or is there anything that Marina told you that you think we should know about and about which I haven't already asked you?

Mrs. Ford.

I cannot think of it at the time.

Mr. Liebeler.

When was the next contact that you had with the Oswalds?

Mrs. Ford.

It was right after Christmas before New Year's. I believe it was the 28th of December, a Friday. I gave, I had, a party for all the friends, and