Mr. Ball.

hand, it extends on approximately about 8 inches, about the span of my hand, more than 8 inches, 8, 10 inches.

Mr. Frazier.

If you were using a yardstick or one of these little--

Mr. Ball.

I was using my hand.

Mr. Frazier.

I know you were, but there are some different means to measure it. I will say it varies, if you use a yardstick. You can go and measure something with a tape measure, with a yardstick and come up with a different measurement altogether, maybe a quarter of an inch shorter or longer.

Mr. Ball.

I was asked, there was some uncertainty in your testimony as to the direction from which you heard the shots fired. Let's see if we can illustrate it.
You heard the shots fired and you expressed an opinion that it came from a certain direction. I would like to clear that up, if I could, on this map.
Here is the Texas School Book Depository Building, and you were standing right here, you said, weren't you? Can you tell me?

Mr. Frazier.

You know the entrance there is not quite at that corner.

Mr. Ball.

That close.
Now, you say you heard these three sounds which you later thought were probably shots, you thought it came from a certain direction.
Can you tell us from what direction as illustrated on the map?

Mr. Frazier.

Right. Now I say, you know where it is the straight curve that goes under the underpass.

Mr. Ball.

That is the parkway?

Mr. Frazier.

Right. I say it runs over this parkway, you don't have it on here--anyway, I say these railroad tracks there is a series of them that come up over this, up over this overpass there, and from where I was standing, I say, it is my true opinion, that is what I thought, it sounded like it came from over there, in the railroad tracks.

Mr. Ball.

That would be east and south?

Mr. Frazier.

No; that would be west and south.

Mr. Ball.

West and south?

Mr. Frazier.

No; it would be north.

Mr. Ball.

No; it wouldn't be north.

Mr. Frazier.

Yes; it wouldn't be south because that is in that direction.

Mr. Ball.

This is north, and you say it, I believe, it came from north?

Mr. Frazier.

It would be more or less west and north were these tracks from this overpass.

Mr. Ball.

Your direction was west and north as the source of the sound.
Well, take a look at the map that does show the overpass and you will put a mark on that.
Did any other people who were standing there with you express any opinion as to where they thought the sounds came from?

Mr. Frazier.

Well, I say, after we found out it was shots I see some of the other people around there said when they were staying there, said that is what it was, downward right back from us, like where we were standing. If we had been standing somewhere else you might have gotten a different opinion, but from where we were standing on the steps there it sounded like back down to the right.

Mr. Ball.

Here is a Commission Exhibit, No. 347. It is an aerial photograph, and it shows the Texas School Book Depository Building.

Mr. Frazier.

Here is the Depository Building here.

Mr. Ball.

That is right, sir. Here is the parkway.

Mr. Frazier.

Right.

Mr. Ball.

Here are the overpasses here.
Can you show us on that map where you think--will that map--can you on that map indicate the general direction from which you thought the sounds came from?

Mr. Frazier.

Yes, sir; because we were standing right here.

Mr. Ball.

Don't mark it up right now.

Mr. Frazier.

Right. But what I am trying to say is we were standing down there, and back over here, this over here is more or less a knoll, and you can look over there and see this. You see this furthest left line that curved around