Mr. Rowland.

shots were actually fired from, I did not see that, there was someone hanging out that window at that time.

Representative Ford.

At what time was that?

Mr. Rowland.

At the time I saw the man in the other window, I saw this man hanging out the window first. It was a colored man, I think.

Representative Ford.

Is this the same window where you saw the man standing with the rifle?

Mr. Rowland.

No; this was the one on the east end of the building, the one that they said the shots were fired from.

Representative Ford.

I am not clear on this now. The window that you saw the man that you describe was on what end of the building?

Mr. Rowland.

The west, southwest corner.

Representative Ford.

And the man you saw hanging out from the window was at what corner?

Mr. Rowland.

The east, southeast corner.

Representative Ford.

Southeast corner. On the same floor?

Mr. Rowland.

On the same floor.

Representative Ford.

When did you notice him?

Mr. Rowland.

This was before I noticed the other man with the rifle.

Representative Ford.

I see. This was before you saw the man in the window with the rifle?

Mr. Rowland.

Yes. My wife and I were both looking and making remarks that the people were hanging out the windows I think the majority of them were colored people, some of them were hanging out the windows to their waist, such as this. We made several remarks to this fact, and then she started watching the colored boy, and I continued to look, and then I saw the man with the rifle.

Representative Ford.

After 12:22 or thereabouts you indicated you periodically looked back at the window in the southwest corner where you had seen the man with the rifle What happened as the motorcade came along?

Mr. Rowland.

As the motorcade came along, there was quite a bit of excitement. 1 didn't look back from then. I was very interested in trying to see the President myself. I had seen him twice before but I was interested in seeing him again.

Representative Ford.

Did you notice a sedan come by with any officials in it at the outset of the motorcade?

Mr. Rowland.

The first car in the motorcade was, I think it was, a white- or cream-colored Ford. This appeared to be full of detectives or such as this; rather husky men, large men. I think there were four in this car.

Representative Ford.

Was this an open or a closed car?

Mr. Rowland.

This was a sedan, the doors were closed.

Representative Ford.

What was the next car you noticed?

Mr. Rowland.

The next car was the President's car.

Representative Ford.

Did you notice again or did you look again during this period of time at the School Depository Building?

Mr. Rowland.

No. From where we were standing the motorcade came down Main, and when it turned on Houston we watched the motorcade, my wife remarked at Jackie's clothing, Mrs. Kennedy, and we made a few remarks of her clothing and how she looked, her appearance in general, and we also discussed--we didn't immediately recognize Governor Connally and his wife being in the car, we were trying to figure out who that as.
Then the motorcade turned on Elm and was obscured from our vision by a crowd, and we were discussing the clothing of Mrs. Kennedy at that time. My wife likes clothes.

Representative Ford.

You never again, after the motorcade once came into your view, looked back at the School Depository Building?

Mr. Rowland.

I did after the shots were fired.

Mr. Specter.

Had you finished telling us all about the conversation between you and your wife concerning this man?

Mr. Rowland.

To the best of my recollection, yes.

Mr. Specter.

All right.