Mr. Rowland.

To the top of his head. There was some space on top of that where I could see the wall behind him.

Mr. Specter.

What is your best estimate of the space between the top of his head and the open window at the perspective you were observing?

Mr. Rowland.

Two and a half, three feet, something on that--that is something very hard to ascertain. That would just be an estimation on my part.

Mr. Specter.

Is there anything else you observed about his appearance or his clothing or the rifle which you haven't already told us about?

Representative Ford.

Was he facing toward you directly?

Mr. Rowland.

Yes.

Representative Ford.

In other words, did you get a full view of his face and his chest and the front of him?

Mr. Rowland.

He appeared to me as though he were looking out the window and watching the crowd in particular.

Representative Ford.

Excuse me, go ahead.

Mr. Rowland.

That is all right.

Representative Ford.

Was he looking toward the corner of Houston and Main?

Mr. Rowland.

No; I would say he was looking in the area or the general vicinity of where I was.

Representative Ford.

And you were on the sidewalk on Houston in front of the building that you have indicated?

Mr. Rowland.

Yes. Now, I can't--here again I wasn't close enough to see his eyes but from the position of his head he was looking in that general area. It could have been that maybe he was--his eyes were a little bit off perspective and he was watching that corner, I don't know.

Representative Ford.

In what position did you say his hands were on the rifle?

Mr. Rowland.

One hand was at what is called the gun stock of the rifle, just above the trigger, it was around the rifle. The other was at the other end of the rifle about 4 inches below the end of the stock.

Representative Ford.

Was the rifle held above his waist?

Mr. Rowland.

The majority of it was, just a small portion of butt below his waist.

Representative Ford.

The butt or the end of the rifle, the barrel end?

Mr. Rowland.

The butt, the stock end, was below his waist. The barrel being pointed in the air toward the ceiling or the wall next to him.

Representative Ford.

I see. The stock was down and the barrel was up.

Mr. Rowland.

Yes.

Mr. Specter.

Were you able to form any opinion as to the age of that man?

Mr. Rowland.

This is again just my estimation. He was--I think I remember telling my wife that he appeared in his early thirties. This could be obscured because of the distance, I mean.

Mr. Specter.

Were you able to form any opinion as to the weight of the man in addition to the line of proportion which you have already described?

Mr. Rowland.

I would say about 140 to 150 pounds.

Representative Ford.

When did you tell your wife you thought he was in his thirties?

Mr. Rowland.

Right after I noticed the man, I brought him to my wife's attention, and she was looking at something else at that time, we looked at that, and when we both looked back she wanted to see also, and he was gone from our vision.

Representative Ford.

So she never saw him?

Mr. Rowland.

My wife never saw him.

Representative Ford.

Did you say at that time how old he was or how old you thought he was?

Mr. Rowland.

I think I remarked to my wife that he appeared in his thirties, early thirties.

Mr. Specter.

When, after you first observed him did you have a conversation about him with your wife?

Mr. Rowland.

Right afterwards. There was--just before I observed him there was a police motorcycle parked just on the street, not in front of us, just a little past us, and the radio was on it giving the details of the motorcade, where it was positioned, and right after the time I noticed him and when my