asked if I could use one of their phones. And, again, I had trouble getting out.
After trying over and over, I managed to talk to Mr. Egger again and tell him. And by now he was concerned with the Vice President, what was going to happen there, and should the office send another man down to start following Mr. Johnson.

Mr. Griffin.

About how long did this telephone conversation last?

Mr. Kantor.

Probably took me 5 minutes to get out, and the conversation was about 5 minutes.

Mr. Griffin.

And then did you return to Mr. Kilduff for further announcements?

Mr. Kantor.

I returned to the room, and Mr. Kilduff, to the best of my recollection, was not there.

Mr. Griffin.

How long after you made your telephone call was it before you walked outside of Parkland Hospital again?

Mr. Kantor.

Well, upon later recollection I thought that it was about 10 to 15 minutes, because we went back into the makeshift pressroom and--I really am not sure whether Mr. Kilduff was there or not.
But Bill Stinson, who was--who is an aide to Governor John Connally, came in dressed in a doctor's uniform- -he had just come from the emergency room, and was mistaken for being a doctor. And I remember Kilduff or someone talking .to him before Stinson talked to us to tell us about 'the Governor's condition. I remember Kilduff saying, "1 o'clock, 1 o'clock, 1 o'clock." I didn't know what significance that had. So I guess that Malcolm Kilduff was there when we returned.
Wayne Hawks, of the transportation staff of the White House, interrupted and said that a pool was needed immediately, and about four or five of us, perhaps as many as seven people altogether, followed him and ran down a stairway towards the main entranceway. I didn't know what a pool was needed for, and I was very reluctant to leave the hospital. But when I got outside in the main entrance area, I saw the Texas congressional delegation--

Mr. Griffin.

About where was that? Put a number on the diagram, please.

Mr. Kantor.

Yes; the sidewalk curved, somehow, like this, and the cars were stretched along this area.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. Let me indicate for the record that you have placed a No. "2" on the diagram, and that you have made a curved line that indicates a walk, and some marks alongside it to represent the automobiles. Go ahead.

Mr. Kantor.

I spoke to Henry Gonzalez, who was holding a brown paper bag in his hand. He told me that it was the effects of Governor Connally. Mr. Gonzalez was still badly shaken.
And I talked to Senator Yarborough again. And he said that the group was going to the airport immediately.
And I knew then that the pool was formed to go out to the airport. However, I still didn't want to leave the hospital, because I know that my office was concerned with what was going to happen to Mr. Johnson.
At the same time, I saw Mr. and Mrs. Johnson closely guarded coming out of the hospital, completely surrounded by men, and put into a car, and they sped away.
I spoke to the mayor of Dallas, Earl Cabell. He was unable to furnish me with any information as to what was going to happen. I turned then and went back up to the second floor.
Now, as I had told the FBI, it was either at this point or it was at a point originally when I went up behind Malcolm Kilduff that I spoke with Jack Ruby.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. Now, let me ask you to place on the map approximately where you were the first time that you think you might have seen Jack Ruby--if you would place a No. "3" on the map where you were the first time when you think you might have seen Ruby.

Mr. Kantor.

All right. It was inside the building, but just barely inside. It was just immediately inside the doorway. I am not sure, as I said, whether there was a small door next to the main entrance itself, or whether this occurred just inside the main entrance. But it seems to me it was--

Mr. Griffin.

Let me suggest that maybe what you could do is use two

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