Mr. Jenner.

That is Oliver Exhibit No. 5?

Mr. Oliver.

That is correct.

Mr. Jenner.

Would you locate it for the record, please?

Mr. Oliver.

Yes; "The Inquirer traced DeMar, and that is the stage name of this man Rill Crowe to an Evansville, Ind. nightclub and questioned him on April 11. He told our reporter that he had seen Oswald sitting in the Carousel on the night of November 21, the night before Oswald assassinated President Kennedy." DeMar said "I gave the FBI a statement about seeing Oswald in the club and that was it. I told them the same thing I am telling you. I have signed it and have heard nothing more about the incident to this day."

Mr. Jenner.

Had you read all of the article by, either by, or referring to DeMar from Oliver Exhibit No.-

Mr. Oliver.

Yes; I did finish the excerpt.

Mr. Jenner.

What is the number of the Exhibit?

Mr. Oliver.

No. 5. And there were other indications of contacts between Oswald and Rubenstein before the assassination.

Mr. Jenner.

And I take it your assumption was at the time you published the article that Rubenstein himself was a Communist agent.

Mr. Oliver.

That seemed a reasonable inference; yes.

Mr. Jenner.

And your source of that was the sources you have just indicated?

Mr. Oliver.

Yes; plus, of course, the fact that he either executed or murdered Oswald.

Mr. Jenner.

Your statement in the right-hand column that "It required a gunman from outside to do the job," in which you are referring to Rubenstein, was based on what, that is a gunman from outside.

Mr. Oliver.

Well, Rubenstein was not a member of the Dallas police.

Mr. Jenner.

I see. Someone other than the member of the Dallas police is what you meant to imply.

Mr. Oliver.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

You go on in a subsequent paragraph to say, "As was to be expected a few moments after the shot was fired in Dallas the vermin probably in obedience to general or specific orders issued in advance of the event, began to screech out their disease hatred of the American people and, long after the facts were known to everyone, went on mechanically repeating, like defective phonograph records, the same vicious lies about these 'radical right' until fresh orders reached them from headquarters. But the significant fact is that there were enough honest American newmen, in the United States and abroad, to make it impossible to conceal the conspiracy's connection with the bungled assassination."
"That is very encouraging."
Now, your statement "probably in obedience to general or specific orders issued in advance of the event" I take it that is an inference or an implication you drew from the sources of information already related to us.

Mr. Oliver.

Right, from the rapidity and the concert, both, of these attacks on patriotic Americans.

Mr. Jenner.

Yes. This is a conclusion or a deduction on your own part of conclusions you reached from the information sources you have indicated, is that correct, sir?

Mr. Oliver.

That is right. I trust that the Commission will inquire into the phenomenal rapidity with which the special bulletin of The Worker was distributed in New York.

Mr. Jenner.

Yes, sir; but I would urge you to drop the future tense.

Mr. Oliver.

Very good. I am glad to see that it has been done.

Mr. Jenner.

Then commencing on page 15 you say, "There were two basic"-I am reading the first full paragraph--"There are two basic reasons why the American people were shocked and grieved by the assassination. Neither has anything to do with either the personal character of the victim or the identity of the assassin." Do you find the place?

Mr. Oliver.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

And then you relate (1) and (2). I take it that (1) and (2) were conclusions and reasoning to which you resorted, is that correct, sir?

Mr. Oliver.

That is right. On the basis, of course, on my knowledge of human history.