Mr. Eisenberg.

And in the case of Exhibits--Cole Exhibits Nos. 5 and 6, can you explain the reason why Cole Exhibit No. 6 shows various splotches or splotchylike patterns, whereas Cole Exhibit No. 5 does not?

Mr. Cole.

Well, Exhibit No. 6 shows that side of the negative to which the opaquing medium was actually applied, whereas Exhibit No. 5 shows the opposite side. Now, on the opposite side, you can actually read the material that was being opaqued from the negative because the opaquing material is a dull red color and it actually reflects a considerable amount of light. However, it will not transmit any light, and the fact that it will not transmit light is shown by the prints made from these same negatives such as Cole Exhibits Nos. 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9.

Mr. Eisenberg.

As I understand it, then, in examining the negatives by reflected light, the opaquing material on the reverse side would serve as a background, and therefore would not prevent you from reading the material which was eventually opaqued out, is that correct?

Mr. Cole.

That is true as to Exhibit No. 5.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Yes.

Mr. Cole.

But you observe on Exhibit No. 6 you cannot read the material opaqued.

Mr. Eisenberg.

That is--yes.. I should have said when the negatives are examined from their front--is that right?

Mr. Cole.

When the negative is examined from the side to which the opaquing material was applied, you cannot read the material that was blocked out by the opaquing.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And when it is examined from the other side you can?

Mr. Cole.

You can.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Because the material serves as a background?

Mr. Cole.

That is correct.

Mr. Eisenberg.

And is my understanding also correct that when the negative is printed by transmitted light, the opaquing blocks the light from passing through those portions of the negative which have been opaqued, therefore blocking those portions from being printed in the final prints?

Mr. Cole.

That is correct; yes.

Mr. Eisenberg.

Thank you very much, Mr. Cole.

Prof. Revilo Pendleton Oliver
-------------------

Testimony of Prof. Revilo Pendleton Oliver

The testimony of Prof. Revilo Pendleton Oliver was taken at 2 p.m., on September 9, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr. assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Professor Oliver was accompanied by his attorney, Mr. John Unger.

Mr. Jenner.

Mr. Reporter, this is Mr. Revilo Pendleton Oliver of Urbana, Ill.
Doctor, would you mind standing so I can swear you.
Do you swear that in the deposition which you are about to give that you will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth ?

Mr. Oliver.

I do.
This is a deposition and not a hearing ?

Mr. Jenner.

It is the same thing. We call hearings when the Commission, a member of the Commission is present. These are hearings but we call them deposition hearings. And all of your testimony will he published in full in volume XV of the testimony volumes, and without any editing, expurgating, or deletion.

Mr. Oliver.

Will all testimony be published?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes, sir; every bit. It now runs 15 printed volumes.

Mr. Unger.

May I interrupt just a second. I notice that under the resolution adopting the rules that it provides that one or more members of the Commission shall be present at all hearings.