Mr. Meyers.

Now, again, I want to emphasize the fact that I am reasonably sure he said this to me because it seems to come into my mind when he was talking about synagogue and services and rabbis and there would have been no occasion for it other than this, at that time of the night.

Mr. Griffin.

Could this have been something that you perhaps learned as a result of talking with one of his brothers or sisters?

Mr. Meyers.

I don't know his brothers or sisters. I have never met them.

Mr. Griffin.

In the various times that you had seen Jack Ruby, had you ever seen him get in any fight or become violent with people?

Mr. Meyers.

No; I have never seen Jack become physically violent. I have seen him verbally bawl out people, but I have never seen him become physically violent.

Mr. Griffin.

Has Jack ever talked to you about his associations with under-

world characters--hoodlums?

Mr. Meyers.

Many times.

Mr. Griffin.

What has he told you about it?

Mr. Meyers.

Generalities. Typical--nothing specific, just typical of a man who wants to be with the ingroup, if you want to call this the ingroup, just dropping names of so-called important people that he met or had known, or so on and so forth.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he ever say anything to you which indicated that he had ever been a part of any criminal organization ?

Mr. Meyers.

No; not--of course, you get a finer point of what is criminal and what is not. Jack did tell me, in his youth he was, well, the words he used, a hustler around Chicago, trying to make a stray buck on selling scalping tickets for various fights or hockey games or something like this. I don't know if he was a criminal. I mean, you know what interpretation you want to put

Mr. Griffin.

Well, did you ever get any indications from him that he had ever sold narcotics?

Mr. Meyers.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Or that he had ever, himself, been a part of any gambling organization.

Mr. Meyers.

Mr. Griffin, if I ever thought that Jack was involved in any-thing--in a narcotic or this kind of thing--I would immediately have bought back my introduction to him. I personally, now, this is--should I say this is off the record, because this is not going to be published anywhere, is it?

Mr. Griffin.

Well, let me tell you that it will be.

Mr. Meyers.

Published?

Mr. Griffin.

Everything that is going to be said here will be published, but we appreciate your frankness.

Mr. Meyers.

There is one thing that--what were we talking about? It slipped my mind.

Mr. Griffin.

You were going to comment about if you ever had any idea or known that he was connected with narcotics or anything like that.

Mr. Meyers.

You can put this down if you want to, but I prefer you to stop for a minute.

Mr. Griffin.

We have a policy of not--

Mr. Meyers.

Well, I don't want to embarrass myself. This is all that this has to do with.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. We will go off the record here.
(Discussion off the record. )

Mr. Griffin.

Let me state for the record that we have perhaps talked for 2 or 3 minutes off the record here, and Mr. Meyers told us about Jack Ruby's attitude toward people who would come to him and ask him to fix them up with one of his female employees, and Mr. Meyers. stated to me that one of the things that Jack Ruby liked about Mr. Meyers was that Mr. Meyers was not one of those kinds of people who had done that.
Let me ask you this question pertaining to Jack Ruby now.
Did Jack do or say anything to you, or do you have any knowledge that Jack was making any money by offering extra curricular services for his girls?