Mr. Hubert.

You don't know their names?

Mr. Hodge.

No; so several other people came in on the elevator and this fellow who turned out to be Jack Ruby was right up against me and he turned around and he said, "Hello, there, Hodge, how are you getting along?" and shook hands, and I looked at him and I knew I knew him but it didn't dawn on me who he was. I couldn't think of his name although it had been 3 or 4 years since I'd seen him.

Mr. Hubert.

How had you known him in the past?

Mr. Hodge.

Well, when he first got to Dallas, I guess, he took over his sister's lounge, which is further down Ervay Street, and a lot of nights you know, he would come up there after he closed his place up, which would be 1 or 2 o'clock, you know, and I would still be cleaning up and he would visit, being down below me there, and he would ask me my opinions how to operate a bar and so forth and all.

Mr. Hubert.

So you had known him what--10 or 15 years?

Mr. Hodge.

Yes, about that, but I hadn't seen him in the last 4 or 5 years.

Mr. Hubert.

All right, so you got on the elevator with the two detectives who were escorting you down and some other people got on and among the other people was a man you now identify as Jack Ruby?

Mr. Hodge.

Yes; and the next day--Sunday---

Mr. Hubert.

Wait a minute let's not get to that yet. So, he turns around and what did he say--did he address you or you address him?

Mr. Hodge.

He addressed me.

Mr. Hubert.

What did he say to you?

Mr. Hodge.

He stuck out his hand and I took his hand and shook hands with him.

Mr. Hubert.

And then what was said?

Mr. Hodge.

He said, "What are you doing up here?"

Mr. Hubert.

He asked you that?

Mr. Hodge.

The very words, and I said, "They've got me arrested"--just like that.

Mr. Hubert.

You said, "They've got me arrested"?

Mr. Hodge.

Yes; and I felt that that would be all of it--I didn't want to tell him why or go into any details as to what I was doing up there because it wasn't none of his ,business, and he said, "You're kidding. You fellows don't have him arrested, do you?"

Mr. Hubert.

Who did he say that to?

Mr. Hodge.

To the two detectives. He said, "You fellows don't have Hedge arrested, do you?" And, they just laughed--they didn't answer back, and he turned around to me and he said, "What do you know about it?" And I said, "It's a long story." By that time he was at the main floor, so he gets off on the main floor and we go on to the basement and move my car and these two detectives escort me back up to Captain Fritz' office. We went back in there, waded back through these TV cameras back into his office, and Mr. Baker--I didn't even know it was Baker until today, and he called me and told me, he said, "Mr. Hodge, I'm the man that took you from Captain Fritz' office up to the fourth floor and showed you the guns", and when I looked at them, I said, "I'd never seen those guns before," and so that was all of it and I left.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, after you moved your car and went on up with the same two detectives who brought you down, you went to the third floor--you went back to Captain Fritz' office, and then you went to the fourth floor where the guns were?

Mr. Hodge.

Baker took me up there.

Mr. Hubert.

Then you looked at the guns and you didn't identify them. How did you get out?

Mr. Hodge.

I Just come back and got on the elevator and went on down in the basement.

Mr. Hubert.

Did anybody have to identify you to get out?

Mr. Hodge.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Did Baker come with you?

Mr. Hodge.

I believe he did. He come back to the elevator and he got off, I think, on the--I'm not positive about that, but he could have gotten off on