Mr. Hallmark.

the strewing of the flowers and the possible delay of the transfer. In other words, immediately after he said that possibly the thing would be delayed, he listened for a period of time, maybe 20 seconds and closed the conversation with, "You know I'll be there".

Mr. Hubert.

And your thought is that that referred to the jail?

Mr. Hallmark.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, one other thing I want to cover is that you make a statement that it was your impression that Ruby would not allow the girls who worked in his establishment either as waitresses or entertainers to make dates out of the club. Can you tell us how you obtained that information?

Mr. Hallmark.

Well, in the 3 plus years that I have known Ruby, we've probably--I can say conservatively that we have talked 30 minutes a week about first one thing or another. Ruby was a good neighbor, and, of course, he pushed my operation there in this garage, and it was through those conversations that influenced my thinking from a standpoint of--I mean--this wouldn't have anything to do with morals, it would be because Ruby knew that he could get him-serf in trouble, you know, lose his license.

Mr. Hubert.

That impression came from a series of conversations that spread' over possibly 3 years?

Mr. Hallmark.

Yes; right.

Mr. Hubert.

All of which indicated to you that he would not tolerate the dating of his girls, but that principally he was motivated by the fact that he could get into difficulty if he did?

Mr. Hallmark.

Yes; true, because he could lose his liquor license.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he ever advert specifically to his losing his liquor license or is that an example that just simply occurs to you?

Mr. Hallmark.

That's just something that occurs to me. He had knowledge of the fact certainly that the Dallas Police Department checks on that type of thing.

Mr. Hubert.

What I'm trying to get at--do you specifically remember him saying something to the effect that I wouldn't do that because I might lose my license?

Mr. Hallmark.

I don't recall his ever stating that definitely.

Mr. Hubert.

I think you said that you thought that during the 3 years, more or less, period you probably spoke to Ruby probably 30 minutes a week at odd times?

Mr. Hallmark.

Yes; probably.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever hear him express any ideas concerning a political philosophy?

Mr. Hallmark.

No; never.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he ever discuss international politics or ideologies?

Mr. Hallmark.

No; not with me.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, on the 23d when you saw him, what was your impression of his reaction to the death of President Kennedy?

Mr. Hallmark.

I described him to Mr. Garter as being a preoccupied and an intense person.

Mr. Hubert.

You mean generally so?

Mr. Hallmark.

Generally so. Ruby was everything was either black or white with Ruby. There was no inbetween. He almost always in these conversations which I would have with him, he would probably be listening to me but he would be staring off--at anything.

Mr. Hubert.

You mean that's during the 3 years you knew him?

Mr. Hallmark.

Yes; and on this afternoon he was just more so. After he had closed this conversation with the diskjockey or newsman, if you prefer, he walked east or Commerce Street away from his club. In other words, he walked up past--I don't know at w at point he walked, but he walked past his competitors.

Mr. Hubert.

That's the Colony Club?

Mr. Hallmark.

Yes; that's right, and he was gone about 2 minutes and he came backhand when he came back he stopped right outside this cashier's cage and stood there and looked for--it seemed like 2 full minutes. He acted like