Mr. Mccullough.

to station ourselves along the ramp, not too close to the exits, and once we were told that Oswald was on his way down, that we were not to move at all.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall any instruction being given that you were to remain on the garage side of the railings that border the automobile ramp?

Mr. Mccullough.

I don't recall any such instructions, because at one point I was standing against a wall, .which would be the side of the ramp away from the garage area, and closer to Commerce Street. But I left that, there again, because I had no vision--there was nothing I could see from that particular point.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall any instructions being given that people were not to station themselves across the Main Street ramp from the railing to the wall?

Mr. Mccullough.

I heard no such instructions.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you able to observe what efforts were being made on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday to check identification of newspaper people?

Mr. Mccullough.

I myself thought that the security in the garage area on Sunday was fairly strong. In other words, I was asked at least four or five times for credentials. And when I moved to this position here--

Mr. Griffin.

The one on the railing?

Mr. Mccullough.

Indicated by the "X" on the railing--a police officer came over and told me first to get down until I showed him credentials, and then he let me stand. There was some--both Friday night and .Saturday there were also occasional checks made. I would say that at least twice on Friday night, and probably twice on Saturday, when I was in and out of the municipal building, that I was asked for press credentials.

Mr. Griffin.

Was this as you .were entering or leaving the building?

Mr. Mccullough.

On Friday night it was as we left the elevator to the third floor, which is located at the police offices, the departmental offices. On Saturday we were asked for credentials before we were permitted into the elevators, leading up to that floor. And, again, as we got off the elevator they were designated by colored patches on their shoulders--there were a number of auxiliary police officers on duty Saturday.

Mr. Griffin.

Mr. Pollak, do you have any questions that you would like to ask?

Mr. Pollak.

I would just ask whether the witness saw anybody other than the man he thought was Ruby who did not appear to be authorized as a newsman in the third floor corridor on Friday or Saturday?

Mr. Mccullough.

No. Well, the other robbery units and auto theft were still trying to function Friday night, and moved their people into this crowd along the corridor. So there were what would be civilians and, I suppose, people having business with the police department moving in and out of there constantly.

Mr. Pollak.

Did these people you just referred to---were they normally escorted by a police officer?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes; they were always with an officer, and went into one of the other offices. As I say, I remember specifically there were some sailors in uniform, and a man reporting a stolen automobile these things you remember because when anybody came along the corridor, none of us had any idea who it might be coming, and everyone watched to see who it was. Incidentally, while I saw the shooting of Oswald, I was not at that time able to identify the man who did the shooting as the same man I had seen in the corridor, because as he moved out of the crowd of people along the ramp toward Oswald, all that I could see was a side view and the back of the head. It was a different type of hat, too.

Mr. Griffin.

The hat was different?

Mr. Mccullough.

Yes; it was a gray felt hat, or a dark gray felt hat, on Sunday--not the spotty type porkpie that I had seen Friday night. It wasn't actually until I saw a full face photograph of the man on television and in the newspapers that I was sure who he was.

Mr. Griffin.

Have you ever seen Jack Ruby in person?

Mr. Mccullough.

No