Mr. Griffin.

Did you, ever See Mr. Jasser talk with. Jack Rubenstein?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Phil Jasser; yes, many times.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you ever see Mr. Standt talk with Mr. Rubenstein?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Morton Standt usually came up. Bill Jasser, after Seymour and them would come in from Chicago, Lawson Jaffe was the first one to come up or usually he would come up with them.

Mr. Griffin.

I am asking you, Jack Rubenstein was only there on one occasion that you recall when they had a meeting?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. And my question to you is, do you ever recall that Mr. Jasser talked with Rubenstein?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Yes. Phil Jasser used to come up.

Mr. Griffin.

But did he talk with Rubenstein on this one occasion?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

I don't know as he actually came up and talked to Jack Rubenstein personally but he would come up and him and Seymour and Rubenstein and Sam Jaffe were always in the same office and Lawson Jaffe.

Mr. Griffin.

You say all would be, as if it happened a number of times but there was only one occasion when you mentioned that Rubenstein came in and you had any idea that there was a meeting afterward or there might have been a meeting afterward.

Mr. Fehrenbach.

What I mean is when they would come up there to the office shortly after they would get there the rest of them would come in on various occasions. Usually when they came in they would spend anywhere from 1 to maybe 3 or 4 hours or maybe all afternoon in Sam's office.

Mr. Griffin.

But, you see, the first time you tell me that Rubenstein came he was only there for a short while, a couple of minutes, and the next time that he came you think he was around for a couple of hours, and the next time--

Mr. Fehrenbach.

The next time he came in he was there quite awhile in the afternoon. This was when so many of them were in.

Mr. Griffin.

The next time he came in he spent the 2 hours with you?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

The second time is when he spent the 2 hours, hour and a half with me when we went out to dinner.

Mr. Griffin.

The second time. I see. The first time he came how much time did he spend?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

The first time I can't recall exactly how long he was there that first time. All I remember is I couldn't actually say how long but there was several different ones came in.

Mr. Griffin.

Well, now--

Mr. Fehrenbach.

So he could have been there 15, 20 minutes, a half hour, maybe an hour, 2 hours.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there other people who visited Sam Jaffe regularly from out of town?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

No. The only ones I actually recall out of town that used to come up there was just his son-in-law, Seymour.

Mr. Griffin.

You don't know anybody else who visited him from out of town?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

There were others who came in but I can't recall any of their names and they never came regularly, I mean never long enough for me to be introduced or anything like that that I could actually place.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there any salesmen who called on Sam Jaffe?

Mr. Fahrenbach.

Oh, yes; we had salesmen coming in all the time.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember any of their names?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

I don't recall any of their names. I mean, this was strictly business and Sam took care of the ordering and everything.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there any customers who came in regularly?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Outside of the jewelry store we were doing work for; no.

Mr. Griffin.

Didn't have any business off the street?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Not that I recall of. If he did, I mean it was something that I would know very little about, and as a matter of fact, he wouldn't let me know because he wouldn't want the other jewelry stores to know.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have anything else that you haven't told us or we haven't covered already that you think is pertinent to this matter?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

No. I think this is everything that I can remember to the