Mr. Fehrenbach.

given them back to Sam. But I had turned them over to Merv Collins and couldn't give them back.

Mr. Griffin.

You never told anybody about it?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

No, because they were getting a little nasty about it, and Lawson Jaffe came to me and said, "If I find out you took those papers I am going to cut your blooming throat," those were his exact words and they were. getting to be quite nasty about it.

Mr. Griffin.

Were all the people who were listed on that list. were they all in the jewelry business that you knew?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

No, they was in the clothing business, in the jewelry business and Seymour Jasson, Sam's other son-in-law, was in show business of some kind in Chicago.

Mr. Griffin.

Seymour was in show business?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Yes. He had, I would say, it was--anyway they knew an awful lot of entertainers.

Mr. Griffin.

What can you say about him, can you describe Seymour?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Oh, he was roughly around 5'10'', 5'11", and dark complexion, very handsome fellow, black wavy hair, curly hair, I guess you could call it., I believe it was halfway between curly and wavy.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you know a son-in-law of Sam Jaffe who had red hair?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

The only thing I can remember about Max Pritcher was he was short and fat but I don't remember whether he had black hair or red hair. But it seems to me there was one that used to. come up there with red hair but now who he was, I don't know. It looked odd to me because I knew he was definitely Jewish, and he had red hair, and--but I can't remember who he was or Rosalie or Rosalyn, I can't honestly say I ever met her husband, in
fact I don't even remember her.

Mr. Griffin.

The only two you remember are Marion and Charlotte?

Mr. Griffin.

How often did you meet Seymour?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Seymour used to come down, Seymour and Charlotte used to come down, quite often, oh, I would say in a period of once every couple or 3 months they would come down.

Mr. Griffin.

So you might have seen him a dozen times?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

At least a dozen times.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, on the occasions that they came from Chicago to Muncie, did they ever bring any friends with them?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Yes. There was, usually when they came down there was, anywhere from, Seymour and Charlotte, and then this Jack Rubenstein had come with them on three occasions that I know of.
Whether he had ever come any more than that I am not sure.
Then there was always--whether anybody else come with them or not I don't know. Then, of course, there was this here blonde girl that this Jack Rubenstein, whether it was his wife or girl friend, who she was, I don't know. Now, those four used to be together all the time.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall any other people?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

I don't recall any of the others that came down with them. This Seymour and this Jack Rubenstein it was my impression they were very good friends. They were both in show business or some kind of business there pertaining to entertainment.

Mr. Griffin.

But there were other people who came down with Seymour?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Well, whether they actually came down with them or not I don't know but I know usually at one time or another during the time they would all seem to be gathering up there in the shop.

Mr. Griffin.

And you don't remember the names of any of the other people?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

No, because I was never actually introduced to any of them.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you introduced to Jack Rubenstein?

Mr. Fehrenbach.

Yes, I was introduced to Jack Rubenstein, the first time I was introduced to him, I can't remember, I was working in the shop and they were in the office working, and Sam called me in there and introduced me, and somehow he asked me something about cards but I can't remember how it was that it came up.