Mr. Johnson.

to my house, and he would apologize for her. Or even if anything should occur with him, he would apologize.

Mr. Griffin.

Is there anything else that you can thank of that you would want to tell us that might shed some light on Jack Ruby on why he committed the crime that he committed.

Mr. Johnson.

I haven't the slightest idea, because the only time that I have known Jack--I have known him to shoot in the club when there was some trouble shoot at the ceiling. We would have heated arguments, but never at any time where he put a pistol on me. I wasn't afraid to argue with him, because I didn't think he was that kind of a person.

Mr. Griffin.

The time that he shot the pistol off in the club, what was he doing it for?

Mr. Johnson.

They maybe were having a fight in the club, and to scare them he would shoot at the ceiling. I can't think of anything other than what I have told you. Other than, as far as I am concerned, he was all right.
After leaving, he wasn't angry with me, and he didn't appear to be angry with me. We had a heart-to-heart talk, and I just explained to him I thought it would be better for me. I was getting in a rut at the club, and I just wanted to change. We had no angry words or anything.

Mr. Griffin.

Thank you very much for coming here and waiting as you had to a bit longer than we expected.

Mr. Johnson.

Like I say, even if it meant to give up a job, I wanted to do whatever I could.

Mr. Griffin.

This has been helpful to us because we are trying to get an insight from the experiences other people had with him, and you have helped us today to fill in some gaps that we didn't have, and I appreciate that very much.

Mr. Johnson.

I certainly hope I have been some help. Thank you very much.

Mr. Griffin.

Bye, bye.

Edward J. Pullman
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Testimony of Edward J. Pullman

The testimony of Edward J. Pullman was taken at 7:05 p.m., on July 24, 1964; in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. Griffin.

I am Burt Griffin, and a member of the general counsel's staff of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy. We have a few preliminaries that we always go through to acquaint you with what we are trying to do here. I might state to you at the outset that the President's Commission was established pursuant to an Executive order by President Johnson and a joint resolution of Congress and under that set of official acts the Commission has been directed to investigate into and evaluate and report back to President Johnson all the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and Lee Harvey Oswald. We have asked you to come here today in particular because you have been friendly over the years with Jack Ruby and we are hopeful that you can perhaps provide us with some information and insight into Jack Ruby that we wouldn't have had otherwise. Under the rules promulgated by the Commission, I have been directed specifically to take your deposition. I might tell you that the rules of the Commission provide that you are entitled to receive 3 days' written notice before being obliged to testify, and I now ask you at the outset if you received a letter from the Commission and when it was that you did receive it?

Mr. Pullman.

I received the letter last Sunday.

Mr. Griffin.

Then, the 3 days' provision is complied with. There is another formal question that I will simply ask you and that is if you have any questions about the nature of what will take place in the next haft hour or so?

Mr. Pullman.

Well, I just wanted to get a little idea of what type of information you are looking for---just what you are concerned with?