Mr. Rubenstein.

to place, trying to raise her children decently and honestly. It was tough for her, and alone.

Mr. Griffin.

How did your father feel towards the children?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I can't find the word for it but it wasn't like--wasn't--he loved the children but I believe since he didn't have to have an education he felt that grammar school was good enough for all of us, and that is what we should have done. But my mother felt differently, She realized that you have got to have an education to progress, and maybe that is why we all felt more for our mother than we did for our father as a parent.

Mr. Griffin.

Your father ultimately came back and lived with you?

Mr. Rubenstein.

After my mother died.

Mr. Griffin.

Not before?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I don't remember.

Mr. Griffin.

Of all of the children in the family, who do you think is the one who has paid the most attention to this early family life and would have the most information to contribute on it?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I imagine Eva. Eva is a pretty smart woman. She could, she was at home most of the time and I think she could, tell more about the family than any of us. She has a very good memory, too, by the way, which is important.

Mr. Griffin.

How close were you to Jack as he was growing up?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I wasn't home much. I told you. You have got the history of my life here. I wasn't home much. I am about 10 years older than Jack so when he was 15, I was already 25. I was working and traveling on the road, and whatever he was doing as long as he didn't get into any serious trouble I felt it is OK.
Except one, incident and I found this out not so long ago. On the West Side on Roosevelt Road there used to be a place called the Lawndale, it is a restaurant. During the Roosevelt administration some character made a wisecrack about Roosevelt. Jack picked up a chair and was going to hit him right in the head with that and got stopped by two guys.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you see this?
Mr, RUBENSTEIN. No; but I was told this by fellows who have no direct connection with them.

Mr. Griffin.

Who were those fellows?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I can give you the name of the owner of the tavern, I can mail it to you, and the fellow who told it to him was afraid to get involved because he has got a record and I said, "What are you afraid of?" He said, "I don't want to get involved."

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember the name of the tavern owner?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I can find it for you. I can give it to you, I can mail it to you as soon as I get back to Chicago.

Mr. Griffin.

Why don't you make a note of it and mail it to us.

Mr. Rubenstein.

Sure, this came as a complete surprise to me because we tried to get, we tried to get, some information from the boys how he reacted away from home. and when a fellow told me this, I almost fell through the floor. I know this Jack were out to the northwest side many times and broke up Bund meetings. That is one thing he wouldn't go for.

Mr. Griffin.

You know this from your own?

Mr. Rubenstein.

From my own fact, and not that he will tell anybody. It came also back to me.

Mr. Griffin.

This other people have told you?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Other people told me. They said, "Your brother is terrific. He just goes in there and breaks up the Joint." He just couldn't tolerate those guys. Nobody would dare mention the word "Jew" in a derogatory form to him because he would be knocked fiat in 2 minutes. That is the kind of a guy he was, hasty, quick. and he was agile, he is built good, he never drank or smoked, and he took care of himself. And I admire him for it and I love him for it.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he ever put this strength and physical ability to use in any sort of a job? For example, did he ever act as a bouncer any place?