Mr. Fleming.

was no need to give me the dimensions because our truck would not go all the way down the ramp anyhow, but we would bring a large truck that would accommodate a larger force and would be down within, I said within 10 to 15 minutes, this would have taken.

Mr. Hubert.

Did Batchelor indicate to you at that time which truck would be used?

Mr. Fleming.

No; he did not indicate to me. We were telling him what facilities we had.

Mr. Hubert.

You did in fact take both of them ultimately?

Mr. Fleming.

We took both trucks, because as I said, after we had difficulty starting this one, we were afraid that the large truck might for some reason stall, and we wanted a standby truck in the event that should happen. I would estimate that we were at the terminal from 10 to 15 minutes prior tO departing for the city hall.

Mr. Hubert.

Now when you departed, what route did you take from the terminal to the city hall?

Mr. Fleming.

I can't tell you verbatim without referring to what was stated there.

Mr. Hubert.

Is it stated in there?

Mr. Fleming.

It is stated there, and we went over that on the map. That is the accurate route.

Mr. Hubert.

You are referring to page 3 of Exhibit No. 1 of your deposition, the first paragraph in which the exact route is stated?

Mr. Fleming.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

You were riding, I think, in the passenger's seat with Mr. Hall driving?

Mr. Fleming.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Now did you notice whether there was a shotgun in the usual bracket for that purpose in the car?

Mr. Fleming.

No; there was no shotgun.

Mr. Hubert.

There was no shotgun?

Mr. Fleming.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

You would have seen it had it been there, because you were seated in the passenger's seat where it would normally be, next to where it would be?

Mr. Fleming.

There were no guns in the truck.

Mr. Hubert.

When you got to the Commerce Street entrance, what did you do?

Mr. Fleming.

The truck was backed into--

Mr. Hubert.

Did you get out?

Mr. Fleming.

Not until the truck was backed into the spot where it was, where it stopped. I then got out of the passenger's side, walked around the front, and went into the basement of the city hall.

Mr. Hubert.

I think you said it was on that occasion that you noticed that it was impossible for you to go down between the truck and the Harwood Street side of the ramp wall?

Mr. Fleming.

On the passenger's side.

Mr. Hubert.

Because there simply wasn't enough space?

Mr. Fleming.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

So you had to go around in front of the truck and down the driver's side?

Mr. Fleming.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Who did you meet there?

Mr. Fleming.

I don't know who challenged me, but somebody in plain clothes asked me who I was, and I told him, and within a matter of seconds, Chief Batchelor and I met. I don't know whether this gentleman took me to him, or he was there waiting for me.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, before we go on from there, would you care to estimate the time of arrival in front of the building and before you started to back in?

Mr. Fleming.

As I stated, I have no idea what the time was. It took us; it wouldn't have taken us more than 5 minutes to get from the terminal to the city hall.

Mr. Hubert.

You had no traffic problem?