(Testimony of Jack L. Ruby)
Mr. Specter.
Mr. Fowler, the Commission will be glad to receive any evidence that you may wish to submit on all the questions which you have raised during the course of this proceeding.
Mr. Tonahill.
Whoever is in charge of his body ought not to be an expert on this thing [referring and indicating the polygraph machine].
Mr. Fowler.
You and I have done all we can do on it. I am not going to physically manhandle Jack Ruby.
Mr. Tonahill.
No; Jack Ruby is going to insist on doing it, and until he is declared a ward through an insanity proceedings, he is presumed to be able to exercise his own consent.
Mr. Fowler.
That's right.
Mr. Specter.
Let us discuss this off the record a moment.
(Discussion between Mr. Specter and Messrs. Tonahill and Fowler off the record regarding presence in the room of anyone able to operate a polygraph machine other than the FBI operator, Mr. Herndon.)
Mr. Fowler.
Let us put this into the record, that we would further object to anyone in the sheriff's office being present. If the only valid reason is one of security, and I would like the record to reflect that we are within the confines of the Dallas County Jail, namely, on 7-M, which is a part of the Dallas County Jail, and that it would appear to me to be virtually escape proof, and as I understand previously when Mr. Warren was here, that he was allowed to talk with Jack Ruby by himself and without the presence of anyone from the sheriff's department, which further leads me to believe that this is not for security purposes only, and we will object to the presence of anyone from the Dallas County Sheriff's office.
Mr. Specter.
In response to your objection, Mr. Fowler, for the record I will state that the Commission has requested that its preference be honored to have no one other than the FBI personnel administering the test, the court reporter, and me present, but that Sheriff Decker has taken the position that the prisoner, Jack Ruby, is his responsibility and that he must have someone on his staff present. Sheriff Decker did agree to substitute as that person the chief jailer, who has no knowledge of or experience with polygraph operation, so that the confidentiality of these proceedings is secure in my view.
Sheriff Decker's position is not that Mr. Ruby may escape, but there may be an incident which would require having someone present, and the sheriff feels that someone from his staff ought to be present. In view of his position on that, it is my conclusion that such a proviso is justifiable under all the circumstances.
With respect to the conversations between the Chief Justice and Mr. Ruby, I was present at the time those conversations were held and they were held in the corner of the room in which we are now sitting, following the formal testimony of Mr. Ruby at a time when there were numerous people in another portion of this room in which we now sit, so that at no time was the Chief Justice alone with Mr. Ruby in any separate room. Mr. Tonahill was present at that time and I think can confirm my version.
Mr. Tonahill.
We were all present and the sheriff's department men did leave, the personnel there the sheriff and his deputies. He left him in the custody--we left Ruby's body in charge of a Secret Service man.
Mr. Specter.
Elmer Moore.
Mr. Tonahill.
Yes, sir.
Mr. Specter.
And at that time there were also present Mr. Tonahill, Mr. Rankin, Congressman Ford, Mr. Ball of the Commission's staff, and I was present. At no time did the Chief Justice have any conversations privately with Mr. Ruby except that, at the very end, Mr. Ruby, the Chief Justice, and I were in a corner of the room conversing, and there were many others present at that time, and I think Mr. Tonahill can verify that.
Mr. Tonahill.
I was present.
Mr. Specter.
Now, for the record, I want to state that Mr. Fowler has previously gone to discuss the matter with Mr. Ruby to determine what are Mr. Ruby's desires in terms of having a polygraph examination, in view of the
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