Mr. Griffin.

I see. So after the incident he was reading "Eva" and "Exodus"?

Mr. Ruby.

No, no; it was before. I saw the books after but he had been reading them before because they were in my sister's apartment. She had taken everything from his apartment.

Mr. Griffin.

So it is your understanding that he had certain religious type books?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Books on Jews in the apartment that he was living in?

Mr. Ruby.

Right; definitely. In fact, he went out of his way as I stated before, to go and listen to lectures at the synagogue on the Jewish problem and the atrocities in Germany, and they showed films, real detailed films on what actually took place and he made it a point to be there.

Mr. Griffin.

When did this occur?

Mr. Ruby.

This happened before the incident.

Mr. Griffin.

How long before?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know. I don't know. But my brother Sam told me about this just last week that when his mother-in-law, his wife's mother, was down in Dallas, Jack insisted she come along to see these films and bear the lecture.
You see, as I said, I have to get these, some of these things through a third party because I am in Detroit.

Mr. Griffin.

Sure, sure. I want to get them straight as to where you got them so we can follow them out.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall, this is on another subject, that at one time when you were questioned about why Jack and you had a falling out with respect to Earl Products, that you stated that Jack was not spending full time on the business, and that was one of the reasons?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, we didn't think so. This was Sam's and my opinion.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you tell us what was happening?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, we wanted him to sell our products that we were manufacturing, and he was, seemed to be always getting involved with selling somebody else's product. Of course, there was a commission involved or whatever it was, but I didn't--we didn't approve of it. We wanted to push our products and so, of course, he and Sam had a real runout or whatever you call it and then we finally decided to buy him out.

Mr. Griffin.

What other products was he selling?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, I think he was selling costume jewelry. Well, we don't manufacture that. We wanted him to devote his entire interest into the company.

Mr. Griffin.

Would costume jewelry, could it be considered a companion line for anything you were selling. Would he go into the same stores to sell costume jewelry?

Mr. Ruby.

You possibly could, you possibly could, but it was our opinion that he should devote all of his time to our products.

Mr. Griffin.

What was Jack's responsibility in Earl Products?

Mr. Ruby.

He was actually the sales manager.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he have employees working in there?

Mr. Ruby.

I was Just going to add, he didn't have any, he was the only one.

Mr. Griffin.

He managed himself?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; and he was a good salesman, too.

Mr. Griffin.

Did this----

Mr. Ruby.

Anyhow, with leading too we weren't hitting it off so good, and my sister Eva was asking him to come down to Dallas, so between everything we finally decided to buy him out and he took his money and went down there.

Mr. Griffin.

Did his sales activities require him to spend most of his time outside of the place of business?

Mr. Ruby.

Of course; oh, yes.

Mr. Griffin.

How much of your sales were on a mail-order basis and how much was this direct selling that Jack may have been involved in?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, at this time, the time he was handling the sales, there was