Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

How old a man is Mr. Dann?

Mr. Ruby.

I would say 55. That is a guess, of course.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you know Mr. Dann before his daughter talked with you about----

Mr. Ruby.

His daughter didn't talk with me. She talked with him and finally convinced him to contact me and see what he could do to help us.

Mr. Griffin.

When did Mr. Dann first contact you?

Mr. Ruby.

Shortly after the verdict was passed.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, do you know what efforts Mr. Dann made after talking with you, to talk with other people in order to prepare this document?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; he talked with many other people, the psychiatrists, he talked with Dr. West. He talked with Dr. Smith, the chief counsel, he talked, with Mr. Charles Bellows, the consultant on the ease.
He talked to a psychiatrist by the name of Tanay in Detroit, and he mentioned, several other people but I don't recall their names.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you----

Mr. Ruby.

Excuse me; he also talked to my brother in Dallas, Sam.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you say he talked with your brother Jack?

Mr. Ruby.

No; he talked to Eva. But he talked to Dr. West and Dr. Smith and Bellows who spent a lot of time with Jack, of course, altogether.

Mr. Griffin.

You indicated to Mr. Hubert that this Exhibit No. 1 had been read by you and that it generally reflected your views.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; yes, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you tell us in your own words generally what is set forth in Exhibit No. 1?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, it goes into, it explains Jack's thinking along the Jewish problem, aria his obsession and his love of President Kennedy, his going out of the way to try to be an exceptionally good guy by helping gentiles as much as he possibly could, and in any way he could. It also explains happenings at the trial. The withholding of evidence by District Attorney Henry Wade that should have been presented to the court. That my brother had received psychiatric help when he was 10 years old and none of the family knew it except the FBI, who had turned this information over to Wade.
However, Wade never permitted this to be used at the trial, and it also goes into telling of many eases that were reversed because of incidents similar to those which took place at my brother Jack's trial, and states for these many reasons that the verdict should be reversed for all of these mistakes or negligence or whatever you may call it on the part of the court and the State's attorney.

Mr. Griffin.

Is it correct, do I have the correct understanding then, that in a sense we can break this down into two parts: One part of the document deals with the facts that have to do with Jack's obsession?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

And the other part has to do with the legal errors in the trial?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; right--correct.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me direct myself to some of the factual issues that are raised by Exhibit No. 1. I have made some notes here as you have been talking, and I want you. after we cover this, to tell me if I have left anything out that you think is important, but I want to try to cover this in orderly fashion. I am going backward though.
One issue that you raised here was that District Attorney Wade had withheld certain psychiatric evidence at the trial that had been turned over to him by the FBI.

Mr. Ruby.

By the FBI.

Mr. Griffin.

And that was that your brother Jack had received psychiatric help at age 10 and none of the family members knew about it?

Mr. Ruby.

That is right.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask you to tell us what your present understanding is now as to how Jack happened to get this psychiatric treatment, and where it was administered, and for how long, and the other details?

Mr. Ruby.

I don't know that but the FBI gave that information to Wade,