Mr. Crafard.

No, sir; I didn't, because if I had had the slightest idea that him or anybody he knew had anything to do with it, the first thing I would have done would have been to walk right straight down to the police station.

Mr. Hubert.

Then when you found out that he had killed Oswald, didn't it occur to you that he might be killing Oswald to remove the President's murderer?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't believe it really did occur to me at that time; no.

Mr. Hubert.

You see the point now, don't you?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; I understand what you are trying to say. But later we discussed the fact that Oswald and Ruby might have been connected, as I believe everybody else has.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you think there is anything, can you think of anything as a result of what you saw down there in Dallas that would indicate that Jack shot Oswald out of some kind of fear?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I can't really think of anything.

Mr. Griffin.

Out of some motive of self-preservation other than, or not necessarily connected with the shooting of the President, but that he would have feared Oswald in any kind of a way?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I can't think of anything that would prove that, that would give me any reason to believe that.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have some idea on the basis of your experience with Jack and so forth as to why he shot Oswald?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I haven't, other than the fact that I believed ever since it happened that Jack was out of his mind. I believe right today that the man should be in a mental institution.

Mr. Griffin.

Is that simply because you can't conceive of anybody doing what he did, or from some other facts?

Mr. Crafard.

I can't conceive of a man that is in his right mind walking up to a man, just walking up to a man, putting a gun in his belly and pulling the trigger.

Mr. Griffin.

In a police station?

Mr. Crafard.

That is right, I can't conceive of it, of any man that is in his right mind doing so.

Mr. Griffin.

But, other than that, is there any indication that you had that Jack wasn't in his right mind?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, you saw him for a period of about maybe 18 hours after the President was shot. In that period that you saw him after the President was shot, is there anything that indicated to you that he wasn't in his right mind in the way that, you know, his behavior was markedly different?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

From the way Jack Ruby usually acted?

Mr. Crafard.

One thing he was kind of, when he would speak it was kind of a choppy way of speaking. He would say two or three words, wait and then say two or three more, which wasn't usual for Jack. He might bust off in the middle of a sentence and then pause for a couple of seconds before he completed the sentence.

Mr. Griffin.

Is this what you were referring to when you talked about Jack being nervous?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; very much that way.

Mr. Griffin.

Was it the kind of nervousness that a man might have if he were afraid himself?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes, sir; that is possible, a man that was afraid for himself would be nervous like this; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

You observed those conditions prior to the time you left?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

This nervous condition?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; on the night when we went out and took those pictures he was pretty well that way, he would talk in a burst and he would stop and then talk in a burst again.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, Larry, isn't it a fact that the reason why you left was because you didn't want to have any part of what you saw going on then?