I tried to dispose of it or sell it, but I couldn't even get a buyer, so I still own-the tools and dies but there are no sales.

Mr. Hubert.

Those are just put in a warehouse, the tools and dies?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know a man by the name of Hollebrandt?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Who is he?

Mr. Ruby.

He is the supervisor of our plant. Is that the one you mean?

Mr. Hubert.

I believe so. What is his first name?

Mr. Ruby.

Abram.

Mr. Hubert.

Is he the supervisor of Cobo?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

When did he become so?

Mr. Ruby.

About a year ago, just about a year ago, a little over a year ago.

Mr. Hubert.

How did this relationship come about? Did you know him before?

Mr. Ruby.

No. I had never heard of him before. When we came to Cobo Cleaners, we had a supervisor by the name of Charlie Comp, and then after my being there awhile, I could see that one of the reasons Cobo wanted to sell out was the supervisor. He just wasn't running the plant efficiently. And so I talked to my partner about replacing him and we finally decided to replace him, and we started looking for a replacement. And I mentioned it to everyone I knew, and in the cleaning industry there is different types of cleaning processes, mostly concerned with the type of soap you use, and we were using, ours is what you call a solvent plant, and we were using--I can't think of the name of the soap. Anyhow, a special soap. I just can't think of the trade name.
And the salesman or distributor in our area for this soap is Vernon Brooks, and I talked-to him about getting--asked him if he knew a good supervisor, and he said he would let me know. And then in a week or whatever time passed, he called me and says, "Yes, I have a good man in Rochester, New York." And, "I think he might be interested."
So I contacted him and we had him come to Detroit so we could talk to him and interview him, and then we wanted to see what type of a plant he was running there, so Marcus, my partner, and I flew to Rochester one day and Hollebrandt showed us through the plant he was running, and we liked him. You know, he is a pretty nice fellow. And he seemed to know his stuff. So we hired him. That is how we got to know him. Other than that, I had never seen or heard of him before.

Mr. Hubert.

How long was it between the time that you first contacted Hollebrandt and the time that he actually became the supervisor? What period of time elapsed?

Mr. Ruby.

I would say a couple of months anyhow. It took a couple of months. Yes, it took a few months.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know a man by the name of Oscar Ruby?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Oscar Robinson?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know any person who lives at South Haven, Mich., particularly at an address 58 Lakeshore Drive?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes, I know those people.

Mr. Hubert.

In South Haven, Mich.?

Mr. Ruby.

I know their name is Ruby. I didn't know his last name. My in-laws own the cottage next door to them, 56 Lakeshore Drive, and so I used to go up there on weekends, but I didn't know his last name was Oscar.

Mr. Hubert.

No, I didn't say his last name is Oscar. I think it is either Ruby or Robinson. What did you know his last name to be?

Mr. Ruby.

Ruby, the same as mine.

Mr. Hubert.

But he is not related to you?

Mr. Ruby.

No, no, no.

Mr. Hubert.

And he had a cottage which is next door to----

Mr. Ruby.

My in-laws.

Mr. Hubert.

Your wife's----