Mr. Ruby.

fed the cows and the horses and took the cows to the pasture and brought them back.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you go to school during all that time?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes; sure.

Mr. Hubert.

Even when you were on the farm?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes; sure.

Mr. Hubert.

So that what is your educational background?

Mr. Ruby.

I finished high school.

Mr. Hubert.

Which one?

Mr. Ruby.

Crane High School in Chicago.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you had any other formal education in the sense of special training in any field?

Mr. Ruby.

I would say no.

Mr. Hubert.

Can you tell us something of the background and early life of your brother Jack, say, from the time 1925 forward, 1930, along in there? I think he is a couple of years older than you.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes. He is about 3 years older than I am. Well, I can tell you that he always seemed to be in fights in one manner or another that I can remember. He was like the bodyguard of the family, you might say, because in those years we lived a half block from Roosevelt Road, and on the other side of the road was the Italian section, and that was called, we used to call it Dago Town, and the Jews couldn't go near that street. And my sisters, well, if they weren't escorted to the streetcars then and nobody arranged to meet them at the streetcar when they returned from work, they would be insulted and abused. So that was, more or less, Jack's job, if I recall, to meet them there.
He always had to go and meet them at the streetcar when they were returning from work. In the morning I don't think it was so bad because so many people were going to the streetcar.

Mr. Hubert.

How old was Jack at that time that you are describing? I gather it would have been after the family was brought together again.

Mr. Ruby.

No, no, no. This goes back, it must have been in the twenties. Maybe he was 15 years old or so.

Mr. Hubert.

When did the family come back together again after having been separated?

Mr. Ruby.

Maybe 1928 or 1929. I am not sure of these dates, you know.

Mr. Hubert.

The reason I asked is because I was under the impression that after your father left, there was a breakup of the family, and then you were not living in this section of Chicago.

Mr. Ruby.

No. We moved west on Sacramento Boulevard. That is when I remember coming back to the family.

Mr. Hubert.

What I am getting at are these instances that Jack had to act as bodyguard against the Italian element, as you put it. That was not when you were living in foster homes, was it?

Mr. Ruby.

No, no.

Mr. Hubert.

Nor was it when you were living on the farm?

Mr. Ruby.

No, no, no. That was in Chicago.

Mr. Hubert.

So it was either prior to the breakup of the family or afterwards?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

After the reconciliation, or was it both?

Mr. Ruby.

I would say that I remember it was prior.

Mr. Hubert.

He was just a teenager then?

Mr. Ruby.

That is right.
.Mr. HUBERT. When the family was brought together again, which was around 1928, where did the family live then?

Mr. Ruby.

On Sacramento Boulevard in Chicago.

Mr. Hubert.

And that is a different thing from the so-called east side?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; that is further west.

Mr. Hubert.

And you didn't have any such difficulties at that time?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; we did, because even though we were west we were still borderlining the Italian element, but we were further west. But it was an improvement as to the other section.