Mr. Griffin.

And you could not see Jack other than through that window?

Mr. Senator.

No. That is the only thing. It is just a solid----

Mr. Griffin.

Steel?

Mr. Senator.

A solid steel wall. At one end was a door, but that was solid, too. In other words, when you looked at the door you might as well say it was part of the wall.

Mr. Griffin.

This was the cell that Jack was kept in?

Mr. Senator.

No; this was no cell. I don't know what cell he was in.

Mr. Griffin.

Did Jack stay in there?

Mr. Senator.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

He was brought in?

Mr. Senator.

This is a hallway. This was a narrow hallway. Apparently they didn't let you know the cell he was in. I never saw him in a cell. I have never seen any cells. They'd bring him down in, and, of course, I can't see which way they are coming through. All I can say is they are coming this way when I walk in, and this is this little hall, this little hallway. I can't see every bit of him, you know.

Mr. Griffin.

And were these always the conditions under which you talked to Jack, even before you left Dallas?

Mr. Senator.

That is the only way I have ever seen him, from beginning to end. That is the only way I could ever see him. In other words, there was no time that I could even touch him to shake his hand; nothing, because there was nothing but a solid iron or steel, or whatever it was, wall.

Mr. Griffin.

You indicated that, of course, you noticed the most marked change in him when you returned to Dallas, and I take it from that, up until the time you left Dallas, you didn't notice any substantial changes in him?

Mr. Senator.

I would probably say that there may have been a little you know, there may have been some change, but how much there was or how much; I know this; I am certain within the man there would have to be some change, because when I left already, how long has passed, maybe 5 or 6 weeks have already passed by. Within the feelings of himself, which I don't know, there must have been some change within him, you know, which I sort of surmised. Now, how much, I don't know.

Mr. Griffin.

Has there ever been any time that you have talked to Jack where he wasn't coherent?

Mr. Senator.

Take that coherent word and use another phrase.

Mr. Griffin.

You use a phrase that is more appropriate to you. I take it you have some idea of what I am suggesting.

Mr. Senator.

Well, when you say "coherent," break it down to another word and make it more simplified for me.

Mr. Griffin.

Was there anytime that you talked to him where it appeared that he did not understand what you were saying to him?

Mr. Senator.

I never noticed it, or even thought about it that way. I don't even know.

Mr. Griffin.

Was there ever anytime when you would ask him a question or say something to him and you would get back a response which did not make any sense to you?

Mr. Senator.

I don't think so; not that I can recall. I don't think so.

Mr. Griffin.

Was there anytime when you would ask Jack questions and he would not be able to respond at all?

Mr. Senator.

No; he was able to respond.

Mr. Griffin.

Have you at anytime talked with Jack about the events of November 22, 23, and 24?

Mr. Senator.

Never at anytime have I ever been at that jailhouse where anything like that ever come up. I have never asked him, and I don't think anybody would to my knowledge, would ask him questions like that, because this would be a hard subject to talk about. I would assume probably in the condition that he was in and the locale, the placement of where he is in, of what he is in----

Mr. Griffin.

Did Jack ever indicate to you any fear; has he indicated any fear to you in the times that you have talked to him since he shot Oswald?