Mr. Hubert.

Do you recall the nature of the discussion between you at that time?

Mr. Senator.

Yes. He reread this paper ad of the why's of the President.

Mr. Hubert.

Where did he get the paper from?

Mr. Senator.

It happened to be it was lying on the counter. The news was lying on the counter, and, of course, he ruffled through it.

Mr. Hubert.

And you say he reread it; so now you are quite certain that he had read it before?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; he must have read it before. See, now, I can't tell you if he read it before that or I showed it to him or what. I just don't remember.

Mr. Hubert.

In any case when he saw it at the coffeeshop, it was obviously the second time.

Mr. Senator.

He was very disturbed.

Mr. Hubert.

Or the third time.

Mr. Senator.

He was very, very disturbed over both of these.

Mr. Hubert.

Explain what actions of his lead you now to the conclusion that you describe as a disturbed condition.

Mr. Senator.

His voice of speech; the way he looked at you.

Mr. Hubert.

His voice was loud or low or different or what?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; it was different. It was different; the way he looked at you. It just don't look like the normal procedure.

Mr. Hubert.

Had you ever seen him in that condition before?

Mr. Senator.

I would probably say--I don't know how to put these conditions together, but I have seen him hollering, things like I told you in the past, but this here, he had sort of a stare look in his eye. I don't know how to describe it. I don't know how to put it together.

Mr. Griffin.

I didn't catch that. What kind of a look?

Mr. Senator.

A stare look; I don't know. I can't express it. I don't know how to put it in words.

Mr. Hubert.

But it was different from anything you had ever seen on Jack Ruby before?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And it was noticeably so?

Mr. Senator.

Oh yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you notice it?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; I could notice it.

Mr. Hubert.

Did it disturb you any?

Mr. Senator.

I wouldn't say exactly I was disturbed, but I could notice it.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he seem to be concerned about the President's death or the ad or what?

Mr. Senator.

To me, I would probably say it must have been a combination of the entire thing. I know he was deeply hurt about the President, terribly.

Mr. Hubert.

You say you know that. How do you know that?

Mr. Senator.

What? By his feelings; by the way he talked about the family and the children; by tears in his eyes, which I have seen, and I am not the only one who has seen it.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you think that he was more disturbed than the average person that you know was disturbed about the President's death?

Mr. Senator.

All I know, while I can't say about the average because all I know, he was really deeply disturbed, but I can't describe an average because there might be another individual of his nature, too, who knows. Who knows the affections of each and every individual?

Mr. Hubert.

In any case his reaction was such----

Mr. Senator.

It was pretty well--you know, disturbed as I was and as disturbed as I have seen many friends of mine, it was worse with him than it was with the others who I have seen.

Mr. Hubert.

That is exactly what I was getting at. So he got hold of this newspaper ad and read it again---is that it--that is, in the coffeeshop?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; he looked it over again.

Mr. Hubert.

What comment did he make, while reading it or after?

Mr. Senator.

While reading it?