Mr. Senator.

On guesswork. I know he had something to do with it. What part he owned I don't know.

Mr. Hubert.

What facts make you state that you know he had something to do with it? There must be something that occurred again.

Mr. Senator.

Nothing occurred because I mean I have seen Ralph, I know Ralph, and I know there is the association of him having a part of that club somehow.

Mr. Hubert.

Let me put it to you this way. Did Jack ever tell you that Ralph Paul owned part of it?

Mr. Senator.

Not directly, but I knew. You know as well as I know Jack, there was an awful lot of things he didn't tell me circularwise. You can say moneywise where he kept his money, if he had a bank account, I know he had a connection with Ralph Paul. How much Ralph owned I don't know.

Mr. Hubert.

Did Paul ever tell you anything about his interest or ownership?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; the first time he mentioned it to me, and, of course, this is after this whole deal happened.

Mr. Hubert.

The shooting?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

What did he tell you?

Mr. Senator.

He said once that he had a part of that place there. He was part owner of that place.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember when he told you that, and where?

Mr. Senator.

He told me at the Carousel, but I don't remember when. I mean I can't specifically remember.

Mr. Hubert.

Isn't it a fact that he took over the management right away, as soon as Jack was in jail?

Mr. Senator.

Yes, he did. Now, I don't know how much he owned or how much Jack owned.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he indicate to you that it was an ownership interest?

Mr. Senator.

Yes, there was, but how much I don't know. In other words, I don't know who owned the bigger piece or if it was equal.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you think that only the two of them had an interest in it?

Mr. Senator.

To my knowledge. I don't know of anybody else.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever hear of his brother Earl having a possible interest in it?

Mr. Senator.

Not that I know of.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know Earl?

Mr. Senator.

Sure. The first time I met Earl is, of course, when all this happened.

Mr. Hubert.

You didn't know him before that?

Mr. Senator.

Never seen him before in my life.

Mr. Hubert.

What about Sam?

Mr. Senator.

Sam? I knew Sam. I have never seen him that often. Of course, I met Sam at the Vegas Club. Sam at one time worked there with Eva, and they couldn't get along, so Sam was out, fighting like cats and dog. Eva is just a hard girl to work for.

Mr. Hubert.

What was Jack Ruby's attitude toward the police as a group?

Mr. Senator.

Well, all I know is apparently he must like them. They always used to come to see him.

Mr. Hubert.

Tell us about those who came to see him. Do you know who they were?

Mr. Senator.

I knew a lot of them by face. I didn't know them all by name.

Mr. Hubert.

Did they come frequently?

Mr. Senator.

Various ones, yes, every day. I don't say it is the same ones, whoever was coming in, but they would either be plain clothes or police in uniforms.

Mr. Hubert.

Did they come to inspect or to enjoy the club as a place of entertainment?

Mr. Senator.

Well, they came to inspect, to my knowledge I would say they came to inspect, but Jack always offered them a coffee, asked them if they wanted coffee, a Seven-Up or a Coke.

Mr. Hubert.

Wasn't it a rule in fact that they could get such little items as