Mr. Hubert.

know, is: Is it a fact that you did not earn anything during that period or did not even draw during that period, or have you any explanation for the reason that Smoler's apparently did not report any earnings for you during several years in a row for certain quarters, seemingly for the third and fourth quarter of each year, and why would that be?

Mr. Griffin.

That is right.

Mr. Senator.

I don't know.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you always on a draw right along?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there some periods during each year when you did not earn your draw?

Mr. Senator.

Oh, yes; there were many times I didn't earn my draw.

Mr. Griffin.

Was there anything seasonal about that? Were there certain times of the year when you were working when it regularly happened that you did not earn your draw?

Mr. Senator.

Oh, sure.

Mr. Griffin.

What times of the year did that tend to be when you did not earn your draw?

Mr. Senator.

I cannot base it on any particular time or periods, but there were many times, especially when you get chopped down a bit on your loans. I have never made what you call any big money with them. I was always, I would imagine, hitting probably around my draw part, or there may have been times when I fell even behind.

Mr. Hubert.

I want to get to the time when you first met Jack Ruby.

Mr. Griffin.

Mr. Hubert, I have a couple of questions. I would like to clear up on some much earlier stuff before you get to that.

Mr. Hubert.

All right.

Mr. Griffin.

First of all, where is Gloversville, N.Y.? What part of New York State is that?

Mr. Senator.

Are you familiar with Albany?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Senator.

You are familiar with Schenectady?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Senator.

How about Amsterdam?

Mr. Griffin.

Well, if I am not, if you tell us where it is.

Mr. Senator.

I haven't been there in so many years I may not have the right direction now. All I know is I am trying to figure what the locality is. It is 30 miles from Schenectady. In other words, it is off the beaten path a bit from your main lines.

Mr. Griffin.

It is upstate New York?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; I would probably say in the locale of the foothills of the Adirondacks.

Mr. Griffin.

Now I perhaps did not catch this, but there was a period in 1947 when you went to work in New Hampshire?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Why did you go to New Hampshire?

Mr. Senator.

I needed a job.

Mr. Griffin.

How did you happen to go there?

Mr. Senator.

The man who was running the Red Rooster--what was the name of it again?

Mr. Hubert.

The Hensroost.

Mr. Senator.

Yes; the Hensroost; he was up there for the summer. So he got me a job up there for the summer. That was another time when I was very much in need of a job. The type of work that I did up there, they had a little place where the help used to come in, you know, to eat or drink or buy cigars, separation from the guest part. This is the part I worked, made them hamburgers or whatever it may be of that nature.

Mr. Griffin.

I do not have anything else, Mr. Hubert, if you want to go on.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, as I understand it, it was in May of 1954, almost 10 years ago, that you moved to Dallas?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

How soon after moving to Dallas did you meet Jack Ruby?