Mr. Hubert.

And you are saying to us that she made it a condition?

Mr. Litchfield.

It wasn't a verbal condition--it was a obvious condition. It was a situation that was arising, let's say that.

Mr. Hubert.

And you perceived that you would have to marry her if this thing was to go forward?

Mr. Litchfield.

That, or divorce my wife.

Mr. Hubert.

But she did not say so?

Mr. Litchfield.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

You think she intimated it?

Mr. Litchfield.

Let's say, from my past experience and knowledge of--worldly knowledge---I would assume this, that's being kind of tactful.

Mr. Hubert.

I was wondering if you could point to any events, since you can't point to any words that gave you that impression?

Mr. Litchfield.

Without being too personal or intimate on my own actions or any actions other than hers, no; and I don't care to be.

Mr. Hubert.

All right, Did you know Jack Ruby?

Mr. Litchfield.

Yes; I knew Jack.

Mr. Hubert.

How did you meet him?

Mr. Litchfield.

Jack used to own the Vegas Club and I used to go there quite a bit.

Mr. Hubert.

How do--how long do you suppose it is that you have known Jack?

Mr. Litchfield.

Oh, I would say from 1959 October, roughly.

Mr. Hubert.

Continuously?

Mr. Litchfield.

Well, I will go in and say "hello" to him, see him whenever I would go in. It wasn't a friendship relation that I would go out of my way to call him or see him or that he would call me. He had no way of knowing how to call me. He knew me when he saw me and said,"Hello, how are you?"

Mr. Hubert.

What about the Carousel Club, did you visit it?

Mr. Litchfield.

I have been in that place twice.

Mr. Hubert.

Can you tell us when that was?

Mr. Litchfield.

When I was associated with Bertha and she was thinking of putting in a business, we looked at a whole bunch of clubs she thought were for sale, and I knew the Vegas Club was not making any money and I would have liked to have tried to buy it from Jack, so one night I went down to see him--I had called and he said he would be there about 10:30 or 11 and he got there about 11:15 or 11:30, something like that, and I discussed the purchase of the Vegas Club and that's when he told me it had, I think, $40,000 worth of Federal liens or something against it which still had it, and he tried to sell me the Carousel and I wouldn't attempt to put in a private club in downtown Dallas; I was thinking of making the Vegas a private club by remodeling it.

Mr. Hubert.

But what you wanted to put in was a private club, not an open or public club like the Carousel?

Mr. Litchfield.

That's right--a private club.

Mr. Hubert.

And it was your opinion that the Carousel was not the proper place for a private club?

Mr. Litchfield.

Right--any downtown location. You see, I cannot obtain an open--let's say a beer license because of my record with the city of Dallas, but I can obtain a private club license from the State of Texas, even though I have a record. I talked to Buddy Mills on the liquor board and he said, "If you haven't done anything in 3 to 5 years--no conviction or anything," you can.

Mr. Hubert.

That was the first time you were in the Carousel and you were there with Cheek?

Mr. Litchfield.

No; I was not. I was alone. That was the second time I had been in there. I had been in there one other time I just went in to see what it was---I didn't speak to anybody at all that time.

Mr. Hubert.

Can you give us the date of the second time that you did speak to him?

Mr. Litchfield.

I think right around the middle of October--the second week or the third week, somewhere along in there---the exact date no; I cannot.

Mr. Hubert.

I think you said that at the time or you said once before in your