Mr. Hubert.

When did you find out that Dean and Archer had said or were going to say that they heard Ruby say that he had intended to kill him 3 days before?

Mr. Sorrels.

I don't know that Archer said that--I don't remember his name.

Mr. Hubert.

Dean--when did you learn that?

Mr. Sorrels.

When Mr. Griffin asked me over the telephone if certain statements were made, and I told him, in conversation with him, the statements that Ruby had made to me, and he asked me if certain other statements were made, and I said not to my knowledge, "I don't remember anything like that," and one of them was about whether or not Ruby came down the ramp, and I told him at that time I didn't recall that statement having been made, and I didn't believe that statement was made in my presence.

Mr. Hubert.

I thought you said in the interview with Wade you told him you did not hear Ruby say that he had formed the intent to kill Oswald on Friday.

Mr. Sorrels.

No, no.
Mr. HUBERT, I am sorry.

Mr. Sorrels.

No; I didn't hear that. Ruby didn't say that. I told Wade that.

Mr. Hubert.

You did tell Wade that? Did Wade ask you that?

Mr. Sorrels.

He asked me if certain statements were made, and I told him no, not in my presence.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, you had not heard of that even until Wade brought it to your attention?

Mr. Sorrels.

No--not that part. The thing that Mr. Griffin was asking me, I think, as I recall it, was about the ramp.

Mr. Hubert.

Wade asked you did you hear Ruby say, "I intended to kill him since Friday night," and your answer was "No; I didn't"

Mr. Sorrels.

No; I didn't hear it.

Mr. Hubert.

Did Mr. Griffin mention in the telephone conversation he had with you statements allegedly made, or knowledge allegedly in the possession of Dean in regard to what Ruby had said?

Mr. Sorrels.

I remember specifically there was a statement about him coming down the ramp. I remember that. And it seems that--I wouldn't be positive about that, but it seemed like there was something else that Dean was supposed to have said in my presence, and I told him no I didn't hear anything like that.

Mr. Hubert.

I had thought you said that you told Wade that you had not heard Dean say any such thing. But he asked you?

Mr. Sorrels.

He asked me. No--you see, he had talked to Dean beforehand, you see, about this. And I never had talked to Dean. As a matter of fact, I had not seen him.

Mr. Smith.

I might say it was my impression at one time that Mr. Sorrels said or indicated that in his conversation with Mr. Griffin, this question about Ruby having premeditated this for 3 days came out in this conversation with Griffin. At least I got that impression. But do I understand it now to be clarified that that particular point did not come out in your conversation with Griffin?

Mr. Sorrels.

I don't think on the telephone conversation at that time.

Mr. Smith.

It came out in your conversation with----

Mr. Sorrels.

With Wade.

Mr. Smith.

With Wade?

Mr. Sorrels.

That is right. But I think--can this be off the record?

Mr. Hubert.

I would rather it go on.

Mr. Sorrels.

All right. We will have it on the record. I have had other conversations with Mr. Griffin subsequent to that time, and personally when he was there at Dallas, in which I believe that there was some question about that statement. But as I recall it now, the first conversation over the telephone was specifically about the ramp incident. And I remember him emphasizing that. And I recall if such a statement was said I don't remember it, and I just don't believe it was said in-my presence.

Mr. Hubert.

In regard to the conversation with Mr. Griffin in Dallas, do you recall a conversation which I think I can specifically state would have been on the morning of Wednesday, March 25---that is to say the morning after Dean had been deposed. And let it be noted that Dean was deposed on the night of