Mr. Crafard.

He could have, yes.

Mr. Hubert.

You don't know that he did?

Mr. Crafard.

Not tha,t I know of.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you speak to him about what you had been doing in the interim since you had last seen him?

Mr. Crafard.

I told him that I had been working in Dallas at the Carousel.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you mention that you had been working for Ruby?

Mr. Crafard.

I probably told him that Ruby ran the Carousel Club.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he show any signs of recognizing he had seen Ruby out at the State Fair?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Or that he knew him in any other way?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

So far as you know then, the man didn't know Ruby?

Mr. Crafard.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

He gave no manifestations of knowing him at all?

Mr. Crafard.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

All right, then. What happened next?

Mr. Crafard.

I hitchhiked on up to Michigan.

Mr. Hubert.

How long did you wait for your next hitch?

Mr. Crafard.

Oh, barely about 10 or 15 minutes.

Mr. Hubert.

The same spot or were you walking along?

Mr. Crafard.

I stayed right there, walked about a hundred yards, maybe, up to an entryway where the cars came into the freeway.

Mr. Hubert.

Then you got another ride?

Mr. Crafard.

Got another ride, right there.

Mr. Hubert.

Who was that with?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't remember.

Mr. Hubert.

Tell us something about him, what kind of a car it was, was it a man, a woman?

Mr. Crafard.

Oh, man; I believe it was a ride with a man.

Mr. Hubert.

How far did you go with this second driver?

Mr. Crafard.

Wait a minute, it was a man and his wife that picked me up, carried me on up across the line, up to where he hit 66.

Mr. Hubert.

What kind of a car was it, do you know?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe they had an old Chevy, or an old Ford.

Mr. Hubert.

What license car?

Mr. Crafard.

It was a Texas car.

Mr. Hubert.

And they carried you across the Texas line?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes. They was going up to visit some relatives of his up there.

Mr. Hubert.

Where? Is there a town at the Texas line that he dropped you off?

Mr. Crafard.

No; it was on up about 50 or 60 miles across the other side of the line.

Mr. Hubert.

Oh, I thought from what you said that he had dropped you off at the line. In fact he had brought you about 60 miles beyond the line.

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And into what State?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe it was Oklahoma.

Mr. Hubert.

How long did you ride with him?

Mr. Crafard.

We was together for about 5 or 6 hours.

Mr. Hubert.

What time of day was it when he dropped you off?

Mr. Crafard.

It was night when I got off there.

Mr. Hubert.

What time had he picked you up?

Mr. Crafard.

He picked me up about between 12:30 and a quarter to 1.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember the town it was in?

Mr. Crafard.

It was one of the big towns there, if I can think of it.

Mr. Hubert.

Tulsa, Oklahoma City?

Mr. Crafard.

Oklahoma City, I think it was.

Mr. Hubert.

You rode in the back?