Mr. Crafard.

I believe him and Jack, he was rooming with Jack, I believe.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you ever at Jack's apartment?

Mr. Crafard.

I was over to Jack's apartment on two different occasions.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see then any evidence that they were living together?

Mr. Crafard.

The only thing I knew for certain when I was over there there was a two-bedroom apartment living room, kitchen and two bedrooms and he told me that one bedroom was George's room.

Mr. Hubert.

Ruby told you that?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever see George at the apartment?

Mr. Crafard.

Not that I can recall.

Mr. Hubert.

You only went there twice?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe I was there three times all told. I was there for a few minutes and then leave.

Mr. Hubert.

And you never saw Senator at the club---at the apartment?

Mr. Crafard.

Not that I can recall.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know if Senator had any financial interest in Jack's affairs?

Mr. Crafard.

Not that I know of.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he work for Jack?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe he was on the door a little bit, several times.

Mr. Hubert.

What does working on the door mean?

Mr. Crafard.

He took the door price, he took the cover charge at the door.

Mr. Hubert.

How about a man named Bill DeMar, do you know him?

Mr. Crafard.

Bill DeMar was a comedian.

Mr. Hubert.

Was he there when you were there?

Mr. Crafard.

He came in while I was there, Jack hired him to come in.

Mr. Hubert.

How long did he stay?

Mr. Crafard.

I think he was there yet when the club was closed, I believe.

Mr. Hubert.

What sort of a fellow was he?

Mr. Crafard.

He was kind of an easygoing guy. Like most of your real good comedians, he was cracking a joke all the time.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, I gather from what you have told us about your life you can size these people up pretty well.

Mr. Crafard.

I haven't only been wrong with my opinion once. I formed an opinion of a person with the first six or seven words they say and I have never been wrong in my life but once.

Mr. Hubert.

What do you think of Bill DeMar as to his truthfulness?

Mr. Crafard.

He was a kind of a likable guy but to me he just didn't strike me, I didn't like him. I got along with him, I associated with him at the club but I wouldn't want to associate with him as a close. friend.

Mr. Hubert.

What was there about him----

Mr. Crafard.

He didn't strike me just right.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you think he is a fake?

Mr. Crafard.

Well, I think 90 percent of him was fake, I would say. He was a fairly decent comedian but his way was "Big me and little you. I am everything and nobody else is anything," was the way he struck me.

Mr. Hubert.

He was there about how long?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe he was there for about 2 weeks, I am not sure, between 2 and 3 weeks.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever get to converse with him?

Mr. Crafard.

While he was there in the club I would speak with him, talk with him a little bit.

Mr. Hubert.

There was never any trouble between you, was there?

Mr. Crafard.

No, there was never any trouble between us. I say he was an easy-going person.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever see Joyce McDonald around there, the girl you previously identified?

Mr. Crafard.

Joy was working on the stage.

Mr. Hubert.

What was she doing?

Mr. Crafard.

She was a stripper.

Mr. Hubert.

What was the relationship between her and Jack, do you know?