Mr. Griffin.

Do you have some idea you might have seen him?

Mr. Crafard.

There was a couple of friends of Jack's there from California while I was there and it might have been one of them.

Mr. Hubert.

You don't know their names?

Mr. Crafabd.

No; I don't remember their names.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember when they were at Jack's place?

Mr. Crafard.

As I say, I believe it was about the second or third week I was there with him.

Mr. Griffin.

Were there you say there were a couple of fellows?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Two or three or how many?

Mr. Crafard.

I think they come at different times, I believe there was one guy come in one time and then about a week--3 or 4 days later another guy.

Mr. Griffin.

But they were both there together for a while?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I don't believe so.

Mr. Griffin.

I see. Do you remember anything about the first man who came?

Mr. Crafard.

No, sir; I couldn't even identify him if he was to stand in front of me.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he spend a lot of time around the club?

Mr. Crafard.

He wasn't there too much during the day.

Mr. Griffin.

Would he come as a patron or was he working when he was there?

Mr. Crafard.

I believe he came in as a guest of Jack's, a house guest.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you introduced to him, ever introduced to him?

Mr. Crafard.

Jack introduced me to him the day he came in. I don't remember his name.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you ever learn anything about what he did for a living?

Mr. Crafard.

Not that I can recall.

Mr. Griffin.

The second man who came, were you introduced to him?

Mr. Crafard.

More likely I was, but I don't recall him.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall at all what he looked like, the second man?

Mr. Crafard.

No, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall at all what the first man looked like?

Mr. Crafard.

No, I don't; I saw so many people around the club.

Mr. Griffin.

The second man who came, how-long did he stay?

Mr. Crafard.

Saw him around, I think, two different days, two days in a row that he was in the club with Jack.

Mr. Griffin.

Did he come at night or during the day?

Mr. Crafard.

During the day that I saw him. He might have been there at night but I didn't notice him if he was.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you pick up that his business might have been there?

Mr. Crafard.

All I figured, all I knew, was that he had come to see Jack.

Mr. Hubert.

You never heard them conversing?

Mr. Crafard.

When Jack was talking to somebody I pretty much made it a habit to step back where I couldn't hear the conversation.

Mr. Hubert.

Why did you do that?

Mr. Crafard.

I have done that every since I can recall. When I was younger I worked for a fellow and he started talking to somebody and I would stay right there and he got kind of angry a couple of times; so, since then, I have made it a habit to step back where I can't hear the conversation that is being held.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you ever hear from Andy Armstrong or anybody else anything about either of these two men?

Mr. Crafard.

Not that I can recall.

Mr. Hubert.

What makes the visit of these two men a part of your memory now?

Mr. Crafard.

Just that it was shortly before he had the dogs brought back to him, and he asked me to make arrangements to ship them to California. I believe they were from Los Angeles.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, the fact that you were making preparations' to ship the dogs to California, and that they were from California, is the fact that causes you to associate the two, and to remember those two men?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes, sir.