Mr. Armstrong.

Well, Mr. Gilmore is a man that will, I believe and everybody else believes, and Jack was afraid of Mr. Gilmore--I know of.

Mr. Hubert.

How do you know he was afraid of him?

Mr. Armstrong.

I know he was afraid of him because he was nervous whenever Mr. Gilmore was in the club.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he tell you he was afraid of him?

Mr. Armstrong.

No--he would show it.

Mr. Hubert.

How would he show it?

Mr. Armstrong.

By--making sure that everything was perfect and if it was close to curfew then he would say all the glasses and bottles have to be off of the table by 1:15---12:15 week nights and 1:15 Saturday nights. If Mr. Gilmore was in the club at that time you would see Jack out in the audience hustling glasses and bottles off of the table, because he knew that if Mr. Gilmore saw anything or anybody drinking in there, he was subject to getting a 5-day suspension or a ten-day.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, when Gilmore was in the club he enforced the rules more strictly than when Gilmore was not in the club?

Mr. Armstrong.

Watch over it more strictly, which is something that most club owners do when there are vice squad members in the clubs.

Mr. Hubert.

Then, was the relationship between Ruby and Gilmore different from the relationship of Ruby and any other member of the vice squad?

Mr. Armstrong.

No; you see, the only time no; not any different, because if there was any other member of the vice squad in there, which Mr. Gilmore is the only one I know by name, is because he is the one that most people fear.

Mr. Hubert.

You mean he has the reputation of being tougher than any of the other members of the vice squad?

Mr. Armstrong.

Well, I guess that's what it is. It's just something you pick up. You never saw him arrest anyone, you never saw him close anyone's club up----

Mr. Hubert.

Was he a captain or what was his rank, do you know?

Mr. Armstrong.

A lieutenant, I think.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know his first name?

Mr. Armstrong.

No; I don't know his first name.

Mr. Hubert.

Did Jack ever tell you anything about him?

Mr. Armstrong.

No; he just said that some of the old time waitresses--we had one up there by the name of Alice and Jack and some other girl who was discussing Mr. Gilmore and they were discussing his reputation, and Alice mentioned the fact that Mr. Gilmore would arrest his mother if he caught her doing wrong.

Mr. Hubert.

What is her last name--what is Alice's last name?

Mr. Armstrong.

Her name is Alice Alexander.

Mr. Hubert.

She was what?

Mr. Armstrong.

She was a waitress.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know anybody by the name of Alice Nichols?

Mr. Armstrong.

I talked to her about twice on the telephone no, no; not Alice this was Mrs. Blackmon, I'm sorry. Alice Nichols?

Mr. Hubert.

Alice Reeves Nichols.

Mr. Armstrong.

I heard the name.

Mr. Hubert.

You have never met her?

Mr. Armstrong.

I have never met her.

Mr. Hubert.

You have never talked to her?

Mr. Armstrong.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, I want to get to the events and your activities, and the activities of others that you observed during the period just preceding the assassination of President Kennedy and for a few days thereafter. Now, first of all, did your routine follow the usual pattern that you have already described until the date of the assassination of President Kennedy?

Mr. Armstrong.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Is there anything you can think of that was not ordinary during that period of time?

Mr. Armstrong.

That I can think of that was not ordinary?