Mr. Turner.

arrived there that---until Oswald reached the point where he was assassinated.

Mr. Hubert.

You saw Ruby arrive at the front?

Mr. Turner.

That's right. He walked up to---see, this is all in line, from our camera position to our--there were they were just a little back of the side light from our camera to our newscaster----

Mr. Hubert.

That's number "8"?

Mr. Turner.

That's right.

Mr. Hubert.

But you are willing to say that he was standing at the front row of the group of people congregated there for possibly 5 seconds before he moved forward to shoot Oswald?

Mr. Turner.

That's right, that's right.

Mr. Hubert.

And-you judge that the time that you saw him standing still, 5 seconds before this shooting of Oswald, was approximately 15 to 20 seconds after you first saw him in that position "10"?

Mr. Turner.

I am vague about that time. Ten seconds or 20 seconds. I am very vague. I mean, but I know he was only there a short time, because I saw--we were on guard to try to move the newsmen out of our way, push them out of the way in front of the camera, and you kind of thrash around at the movement of them to keep on your shot, and that is how I come to notice another man up there. • These three men are the only ones that I remember on that side except our man Pettit. There could have been more. There was some CBS cameramen over in this locality, but they had already been there, and that wasn't in my mind at all, the ones that were actually stationed there. It was the movement of people at that time that made you look at it.

Mr. Hubert.

All right, let's get a little bit more.about this period for Jack Ruby to move from the position you have marked "10", to the position you have marked "12", when he was standing in the front line. Did he have to go through any great mass of people?

Mr. Turner.

No, not to my knowledge, because I didn't see a great number of men up in there.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he have to push, or shoulder his way up there?

Mr. Turner.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

He could just walk up and get into that position?

Mr. Turner.

That's right. There was some more men out there in this area, but I can't connect it at this point.

Mr. Hubert.

What I want to get at, from what you tell me the group was not Such that he would have to bulldoze his way through?

Mr. Turner.

No; he just flat walked up.

Mr. Hubert.

Just once. again for the record. There can be no doubt in your mind but the man now identified as Jack Ruby is the man you saw at position "10"?

Mr. Turner.

Correct.

Mr. Hubert.

All right; now, during our interview, immediately preceding the commencement of this deposition you mentioned another person that you had seen around the court building on several occasions, and I should like now--in other words, .tell what you know about this person when you first saw him, now, at the numerous occasions on which you saw him until the last time that you saw him?

Mr. Turner.

All right. All right. We arrived from Fort Bliss at approximately 1 a.m. Saturday, the 23d of November, from Fort Worth, to set up our mobile unit inside the jail for a coverage of the assassination of the President, and when we arrived there we there was this man that resembled John Carradine of the movies quite a lot. He was very thin faced, around 40 to 50, carrying a portfolio, and another little bag with him. Looked like a shaving kit bag, or something of that effect. He--as soon as we got there, it was chilly, and we went inside the open doors on the Commerce Street side, and he was standing inside, and he immediately started talking to us about various things which we passed off as just an average person talking to you, finding out what you were doing and everything, and he talked to us about 15 or 20 minutes. He did mention in his conversation that he had been a school teacher prior to that, about 16 months before.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, did he have a press badge on?