Mr. Hubert.

Now, you--use the mockup first to determine the exact spot that you were standing in at what we'll call your final position.

Mr. Archer.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

In which you were approximately 15 minutes before the shooting. I say, using this mockup, I want you to place yourself wherever you were, and relate it to the map or chart, or draw a circle in the spot at which you were. First of all, show to me on the mockup where you were.

Mr. Archer.

I was at this position right here, sir. In other words, this door--this door here [indicating] had it been open--in fact, it was open. I was helping to hold it open. Right on the corner of this particular--it is not exactly a pillar, but just to the corner of that

Mr. Hubert.

If I put a circle right here, would that be the spot you are talking about?

Mr. Archer.

Yes; it would.

Mr. Hubert.

I am making a circle and drawing a line out, and I am writing, "Position of Archer for about 15 minutes prior to the shooting." I am drawing this circle around that legend, and connecting the circle which marks your

position with the circle which describes it, is that correct?

Mr. Archer.

Yes; it is as near correct as I can recall.

Mr. Hubert.

When the party came out, then the doors swung in to you, is that right?

Mr. Archer.

Sir, as I remember it, when the party came out, now, as near as I can recall, the doors [were] open.

Mr. Hubert.

Opened which way ?

Mr. Archer.

I Just couldn't say. I have thought about that, but I don't remember exactly. I'd say--as I was showing you here, I was standing enough to this side to hold this door.

Mr. Hubert.

To hold the

Mr. Archer.

This is the door [indicating].

Mr. Hubert.

The corridor door ?

Mr. Archer.

The corridor door, yes, sir; not the jail office door.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember whether the Jail office door sort of cornered you?

Mr. Archer.

No, sir; it couldn't corner me. It didn't interfere with me at all.

Mr. Hubert.

It is a swinging door, isn't it?

Mr. Archer.

Yes, sir; it is. I am sure--I feel like in my own mind, it was open.

Mr. Hubert.

Swung open into the Jail area?

Mr. Archer.

Swung open into the jail area. In my own mind, as I say, I can't be certain about that point, because I just don't recall.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, I suggest to you that if you had--if it did open the other way, it would have kind of boxed you in.

Mr. Archer.

I don't believe it did. That is the reason I have it in my mind that it was opened the other way, because I recall no interference from the door whatsoever.

Mr. Hubert.

You don't remember being boxed in ?

Mr. Archer.

I know I wasn't boxed in, no, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Tell us what happened then when the party came down that was transferring Oswald?

Mr. Archer.

Well, as they brought Oswald down to the basement, now, the first officer that I saw was Captain Fritz. As he started out the jail office door he stopped and paused, and whether he said something to the detectives with Oswald, I don't know. He didn't--motioned to them like for them to wait a second, like I say, I didn't hear any command or any orders given at that time, and then he proceeded to walk out, and I would say probably at that particular point, took about three paces. Then the detectives started out with Oswald.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, as the party moved, they moved away from you, I guess?

Mr. Archer.

Yes; they did.

Mr. Hubert.

But, they were in your line of vision ?

Mr. Archer.

Yes, sir; they were.