Mr. Hubert.

Did you see him ?
Captain MARTIN. Not until after the shooting.

Mr. Hubert.

Were you looking at any time in the direction where you subsequently learned or believed he came from?
Captain MARTIN. No; not directly. Of course Where is your map? I couldn't have seen him from--if I would have been, because there were people all along here [indicating]

Mr. Hubert.

That is to say, to your right, is that right?
Captain MARTIN. Yes; across here [indicating]. And all up in here [indicating].

Mr. Hubert.

There were people between---on your right, between you and---
Captain MARTIN. And----

Mr. Hubert.

And the Main Street ramp?
Captain MARTIN. Right.

Mr. Hubert.

How many people were there in that general area ?
Captain MARTIN. I just would have to make an estimate.

Mr. Hubert.

That's right.
Captain MARTIN. I would say between me and where he was, there was 8 or 10 people.

Mr. Hubert.

I'm going to mark off an area in the Main Street ramp by just drawing with a pencil a square, and putting, "Area A," in it and I will ask you if you can tell us in the "Area A," marked on this map, what were the conditions with respect to the number of people and so forth. Not exactly. I know you didn't count heads, but just how crowded were the conditions?
Captain MARTIN. As well as I can remember there weren't too many people up in that--up that far. There were 2 or 3 cars parked in the ramp there.

Mr. Hubert.

You mean in the Main Street ramp?
Captain MARTIN. Now, wait a minute. You have got Main Street .

Mr. Hubert.

I marked this as "Area A," on Main Street?
Captain MARTIN. No, no; across this ramp there, there was quite a number of people.

Mr. Hubert.

That is in the space I have marked "Area A" ?
Captain MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Roughly how many people?
Captain MARTIN. Oh, I'd say 15 or 20.

Mr. Hubert.

Were they standing shoulder to shoulder ?
Captain MARTIN. Yes; more or less.

Mr. Hubert.

How many ranks deep would you think?
Captain MARTIN. I don't know.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, would you regard it as a crowd ?
Captain MARTIN. Yes; I would. Mostly the press. There were some officers in that area also.

Mr. Hubert.

I think this Officer Harrison was
Captain MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see him ?
Captain MARTIN. Yes, yes; he he is one of my men. He was standing, oh, just about at the edge of the ramp there.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you mark on the map by the use of a circle where you think Harrison was at the time?
Captain MARTIN. Harrison was about fight here [indicating].

Mr. Hubert.

That is at the time of the shooting?
Captain MARTIN. Yes; uh-huh.

Mr. Hubert.

Would you just extend this with a little line and then write out, "Position of"--what are his initials? W. J.?
Captain MARTIN. W. J.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, Captain Martin, let me see if I can get something clear.
Was Detective Harrison in front of Oswald, or to one or the other sides of him?
Captain MARTIN. This happened so fast it is really hard to tell. Of course, Oswald and the two officers came out this door.

Mr. Hubert.

That is the jail door?
Captain MARTIN. Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

When they got just about, oh, 2 or 3 feet from Harrison, there