Mr. Lowery.

on that side I wouldn't have been able to see more than a few feet up the ramp.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see anybody coming down? I understand from your statement that you could not have seen their faces as they came down the ramp because of the obstruction, but you could have seen feet, couldn't you?

Mr. LOWERY. I wouldn't be able to. I didn't see anybody come down the ramp. They could have possibly gotten down there without me seeing them, but I didn't see any feet, or any person come down the ramp at all.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see anybody climb over the rails from the parking area into the ramp on the Main Street side?

Mr. Lowery.

No, sir; not that I remember. I couldn't see. couldn't see the rail from my position for the line of photographers and officers and the TV cameras and lights.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you have occasion to talk to Ruby thereafter?

Mr. Lowery.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see him after that ?

Mr. Lowery.

Which point?

Mr. Hubert.

After the shooting?

Mr. Lowery.

Well, as I told you, the officers took him into the jail office, and I went into the jail office, and they were in the process of searching him, and he was struggling, and I held one I believe his left leg. Had him down on his back, and I held his left leg while he was doing a quick shakedown and then he was taken to the elevator and upstairs, and that is the last that I saw of him.

Mr. Hubert.

All right. Detective Lowery, have you anything else that you would like to add that you have not stated, or is not contained in these several exhibits we have identified here today ?

Mr. Lowery.

Well, I think they--I haven't been through the police report, the investigation in the police department made by Captain Jones. I believe that they had--a little more in detail.

Mr. Hubert.

You are referring, I think, to a document contained in Commission's report 81-A, that is page 66, consisting of two pages and entitled, "Investigation of Operational Security Involving the transfer of Lee Harvey Oswald, November 24, 1963," which was supplied to the Commission by the Dallas Police Department through the attorney general.

Since I do not have an extra copy of this document, I am going to allow it to remain in the volume, but I am going to mark it for identification as I have marked the others, and that is, "Dallas, Texas, 'March 25, 1964, exhibit Number 5085," which purports to be an interview of you. Now wait--I'll finish the identification, 5085, deposition of R. L. Lowery, signing my name on the first sheet and placing my initials in the lower right-hand corner on the second sheet. This is an interview of R. L. Lowery, November 29, 1963, by Lt. P. G. McCaghren and Lt. C. C. Wallace. I think you have read this document, have you not, sir?

Mr. Lowery.

Let me brush through it right quick. I don't----

Mr. Hubert.

All right. Referring to Exhibit 5085, do you now say that it is correct? Are there any changes you want to suggest, modifications to make?

Mr. Lowery.

It is correct, as far as I know.

Mr. Hubert.

All right. Anything else you want to say?

Mr. Lowery.

No, sir; I believe that's----

Mr. Hubert.

Now, have you been interviewed prior to the taking of the deposition by any member of the Commission? I don't think there was any interview between you and me before.

Mr. Lowery.

No, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

All right, sir. Thank you very much.

Capt. Frank M. Martin

Testimony of Capt. Frank M, Martin

The testimony of Capt. Frank Martin was taken at 2 p.m., on March 24, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.