Mr. Griffin.

And how far up the ramp was the armored car or how far down the ramp, I should say ?

Mr. Harrison.

Well, I didn't go up there, but it appeared to be setting just backed into the doorway.

Mr. Griffin.

Would you say it was halfway down?

Mr. Harrison.

No; it wasn't halfway down.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, were there officers, police officers, standing up there around the back of the. armored car?

Mr. Harrison.

I remember seeing Lieutenant Butler up there.

Mr. Griffin.

And could you distinguish these police officers from the position in the middle of the entranceway to the jail office where you have marked your initial, where you have marked your initial position on the ramp here, could you, looking up towards Commerce Street, could you distinguish the faces of the police officers up there, could you recognize who they were, toward the armored car?

Mr. Harrison.

Well, I recognized Lieutenant Butler, but I don't recall seeing----now, Chief Batchelor was around the truck. They went in and out of the truck there inspecting it.

Mr. Griffin.

And do you recall seeing him up there?

Mr. Harrison.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Uh-huh. And you didn't have any difficulty seeing Batchelor from your position on the ramp?

Mr. Harrison.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

And presumably the same situation would prevail if you looked up toward the Main Street ramp, isn't that right?

Mr. Harrison.

That is right.

Mr. Griffin.

And did you ever have occasion to look up toward the Main Street ramp and see the police officer who was guarding the exit to the ramp up there?

Mr. Harrison.

There was a uniformed officer up there.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, from where you were down here at what we have called your initial position, on the time or times that you looked up toward that uniformed officer up there, could you make out his face and what-not?

Mr. Harrison.

I never did see his face. All I could see was a man in uniform up there.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, we have learned subsequently, and you have, too, I am sure, that that was Officer Vaughn that was up there ?

Mr. Harrison.

That is fight.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you know Vaughn before?

Mr. Harrison.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you able to tell from where you were that it was Vaughn up there?

Mr. Harrison.

Well, I didn't know who it was up there. I could just see his uniform and back.

Mr. Griffin.

Was it because he didn't turn his face to you ?

Mr. Harrison.

He was facing out when I looked up there.

Mr. Griffin.

You feel that, if he turned his face toward you, you would have recognized who it was?

Mr. Harrison.

I would probably have recognized him; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me ask you if the same thing is true, when you looked up toward the Commerce Street entrance and the sidewalk, there were do you remember that there were officers guarding up there?

Mr. Harrison.

I couldn't see any officers out there. It was considerably darker up on this end of the ramp due to the fact that the armored truck had the light blocked off.

Mr. Griffin.

I see.

Mr. Harrison.

I mean the vision, it was pretty well--the whole ramp area was pretty well taken up by that truck?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes. Let me make sure that I am clear on that. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Is it fair to say that, if on any occasion that you had to look up toward the Main Street ramp, if there had been a man walking